Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

@Frank Apisa,

Wait, didn't the Mormons try something like this? As far as I remember that got the US army pretty upset.

@0bserver,

0bserver wrote:

I know that the UK military was sending Jewish refugees back to Nazi Germany from the port of Haifa.

If you're going to make accusations you should provide a source. I googled the above, all I could find was this.

Quote:

Exodus 1947 was a ship that carried Jewish emigrants from France to British Mandatory Palestine on July 11, 1947. Most of the emigrants were Holocaust survivors who had no legal immigration certificates for Palestine. Following wide media coverage, the British Royal Navy seized the ship and deported all its passengers back to Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Exodus

Note the date, 1947.

1 Reply

@0bserver,

0bserver wrote:

The funny part is that if Jews settle in Arizona, it won't be the Navajo they start fighting. After they set up start up companies and universities etc, I'm sure it will turn out that Mohammad tied his winged horse on the way to heaven in the antelope canyon too. And all of arizona is acually historic Muslim land. And the ALO will be fighting for a while untill it agrees to peace talks.. And then we go again.

I doubt "the Muslims" would have much success with such an attempt.

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@Frank Apisa,

Isn't New York "historic Jewish land?"

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@0bserver,

0bserver wrote:

Wait, didn't the Mormons try something like this? As far as I remember that got the US army pretty upset.

Then Israel should stay right where it is...and live with as much "peace" as it can muster.

But the US should butt the hell out...completely. We should NOT be favoring Israel like we do.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

The funny part is that if Jews settle in Arizona, it won't be the Navajo they start fighting. After they set up start up companies and universities etc, I'm sure it will turn out that Mohammad tied his winged horse on the way to heaven in the antelope canyon too. And all of arizona is acually historic Muslim land. And the ALO will be fighting for a while untill it agrees to peace talks.. And then we go again.

Wouldn't that rant be just as prejudicial as anyone making fun of Jewish religious beliefs? Why is it ok to be contemptuous of Muslims and Arabs but saying anything against the State of Israel is seen as anti-Semitism?

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@revelette,

Many Jews also speak out against the illegal expansion of settlements of the Zionists in Israel.

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@revelette,

Quote:

but saying anything against the State of Israel is seen as anti-Semitism?

The "anti-[fill in the blank] has been patented by the USA, Rev, and it's been licensed to Israel. It's really only for these two that it has that special ring. That illustrates for you the effectiveness of propaganda.

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@0bserver,

0bserver wrote:

Palestinians are a people, and they have the right to their own state. I don't care if they lived in Jenin for 100 or 400 years. If people stop inciting them to fight for Afula, maybe they will have their own state one day.

At this point in the conflict a two state solution is a farce, seeing as how the Zionists have arrogated most of the habitable and arable land in the West Bank outside of the Palestinian cities and towns therein.

The Palestinians have a Right of Return—which includes the right to negotiate it away, although I don’t see it happening--according to various international treaties. The Zionists violate this right, of course, because it negates the existence of the state of Israel as being for “the Jews.” A single, binational state is what is needed in Palestine.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

MontereyJack wrote:
0bserver wrote:
Palestinians aren't indigenous to the West Bank even. Let alone Israel

Yes, they are. Demographic history disagrees with you.

Not likely. The Palestinians may have neighbored the Kingdom of Israel, but they were not a part of it.

The boundaries of the West Bank are close to what the boundaries of the Kingdom of Israel were.

There might be a case to be made that the Palestinians are indigenous to the Gaza Strip though.

Genetic research shows that the Palestinians are indigenous to the Levant. They are the descendants of the various peoples that inhabited the area, e.g. Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, Israelites, etc., ridiculous references to “the Kingdom of Israel” notwithstanding.

This whole business of referring to religious mythologies to assert that “the Jews” are the rightful owners of Palestine is asinine. The profession of a religion does not establish the rightful ownership of land.

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@InfraBlue,

But they say "god" granted them their land. Who is god? A mythical creator of heaven and earth- created by man (Jews).

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@izzythepush,

"In October 1940 1,770 Jewish refugees sailed from Tulcea to Haifa in two ships. The Pacific arrived off Haifa on November 1, followed a few days later by the by Milos. The Royal Navy intercepted each ship and escorted it into Haifa, where British authorities detained the refugees before tranferring them to a requisitioned French ocean liner, the Patria, for deportation to Mauritius."

"On August 12, 1946 the Henrietta Szold, carrying 536 passengers, was intercepted. The same day, the British announced that illegal immigrants would be sent to Cyprus and other areas under detention. The first British deportation ship sailed for Cyprus on the same day, with 500 illegal immigrants on board."

etc etc..

You know about the detention camps for Jewish refugees on Cyprus, right?

1 Reply

@revelette,

I would never make fun of any religion.

But I think the "tying of the horse" in Jerusalem is not part of Islamic ancient culture. This story is probably 90 years old, following Jewish immigration:

"Following the destruction of the Second Temple the Western Wall was traditionally referred to as el-Mabka (the place of weeping) for the Jewish people who gathered there weekly. In the 1920s, with the rise of Arab-Jewish tension, a part of the Western Wall, which is the only remaining part of the Second Temple in the Old City of Jerusalem, began to be referred to as the Al-Buraq Wall. It was given this name because it was said that Muhammad had tied the Buraq to that wall during his Night Journey."

The Quran never mentions Jerusalem actually:

"Muhammad mounted the Buraq, and in the company of Gabriel, they traveled to the "farthest mosque". The location of this mosque was not explicitly stated"

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@InfraBlue,

I think you worry too much too early. Let them talk and see what they agree on. If the agreement will demand Jewish settlements to be removed - they will be, just like they were in Gaza. See there is precedent. I assume the agreement will also demand no Palestinian rockets into Israel - no precedent of that in Gaza yet.

As for the right of return. I'm sure no one will be opposed to Palestinian "Aliyah" to the future state of Palestine. Just like the Jewish one to the state if Israel. Both Palestinian and the Jews are "returning" - the difference is only 65 years vs. 2000 years.

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@0bserver,

I know that you alleged Britain sent Jewish refugees back to Nazi Germany, but you can't substantiate that allegation.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Seriously. Every country cares about its own interests. In 1948 the US decided that Israel wasn't in it's interests and let Stalin help them. When the French and the British wanted Suez back - they called Israel on the phone and asked to help. US was nowhere near. The French helped the Israeli nuclear program while they were having their own Arab problems in North Africa, and stopped when they didn't care anymore. Turkey was a big friend of Israel for a while, then decided to become an Empire and stopped for a while, then saw the war in Syria and the Tamar gas field and became a friend again (almost). If the US is helping Israel or Egypt or anyone - trust me, its not out of brotherly love.

1 Reply

@0bserver,

0bserver wrote:

Seriously. Every country cares about its own interests. In 1948 the US decided that Israel wasn't in it's interests and let Stalin help them. When the French and the British wanted Suez back - they called Israel on the phone and asked to help. US was nowhere near. The French helped the Israeli nuclear program while they were having their own Arab problems in North Africa, and stopped when they didn't care anymore. Turkey was a big friend of Israel for a while, then decided to become an Empire and stopped for a while, then saw the war in Syria and the Tamar gas field and became a friend again (almost). If the US is helping Israel or Egypt or anyone - trust me, its not out of brotherly love.

I agree with you on that final commnet.

And I wish that we would stay out of the issue completely.

It is an absurdity and an insult to reason to suppose we are unbiased enough to broker deals between these two parties. We should stay the hell out of the negotiations.

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@izzythepush,

Europe in WWII was a death trap for Jews in general. You want Britain sending Jews back to the Nazi's specifically, here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_St._Louis

Out of 937 German Jewish refugees , "The United Kingdom agreed to take 288 of the passengers, who disembarked and traveled to the UK by other steamers. "

"Two hundred fifty-four passengers in Belgium, France, and the Netherlands after that date died during the Holocaust. Most of these people were murdered in the killing centers of Auschwitz and Sobibór; "

You going to find more fine-print details to pick on now?

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@Frank Apisa,

Unbiased does not exist as a concept. There are only those who are able to broker an agreement and those who are not. The EU is not going to do that

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@0bserver,

Specifically? You're off your head, we took in 228 people who had been refused entry by America. The rest went to other European countries, not back to the Nazis. The war hadn't begun, Belgium France and the Netherlands weren't occupied.

Before Advocate lost the plot completely, he used to do stuff like this, make a sweeping allegation then twist and turn until we finally got the truth out of him.

Are you ready to admit this is false yet?

Quote:

I know that the UK military was sending Jewish refugees back to Nazi Germany from the port of Haifa.

You can say you made a mistake, I'm not accusing you of being a liar, just being sloppy.

Next time an idea pops into your head, research it properly first. There's others on A2K a lot less forgiving than me.

1 Reply

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

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