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Zionists don't represent Jews

 
 
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2009 01:54 pm
ZIONISTS DON'T REPRESENT JEWS

From the inception of the Zionist State and particularly in recent times, the impression has been created in the World that there is some connection between the State, which falsely calls itself Israel, and the Jewish people as a whole. Therefore, we who continue to uphold the never-changing tradition of the Jewish people find it proper to again clarify the following points:

A Jew is one who remains faithful to the laws of the Jewish religion, that is, the Holy Torah and its commandments.

The Jewish people became a people before they had their own land, and continued to exist as a people also after they went Into exile, because our very people hood is based exclusively on the Torah.

The Holy Land was given to the Jewish people on the condition that they observe the Torah and its commandments. When they failed to do this, their sovereignty over the land was taken from them, and they went into exile. From that time, we are prohibited by the Torah with a very grave prohibition to establish a Jewish independent sovereignty in the Holy Land or anywhere throughout the world. Rather, we are obligated to be loyal to the nations under whose protection we dwell.

This situation has existed for close to 2000 years when the Jewish people were dispersed throughout all corners of the world. During this time, the Jews always remained faithful to the country in which they lived.

The Jewish people are grateful to all those merciful nations which have allowed them to observe Torah and the commandments undisturbed.
From ancient times, the relations between the Jewish and Islamic peoples have always been those of peace and brotherhood, and friendship always reigned between them. The proof of this is the fact that for centuries, in all the Arab lands, hundreds of thousands of Jews lived in honor and amidst mutual esteem.

Jews throughout all generations yearned to grace the sacred soil of the Holy Land and to live there. However, their sole purpose was to fulfill the commandments dependent upon the land and to absorb Its holiness. Never, G-d forbid, did they have any nationalist or sovereign intent whatsoever which, as mentioned above, is forbidden to us. Indeed, also here in the Holy Land, our fathers lived in neighborly harmony with the Palestinian residents of the land, helping one another, to mutual benefit.

Until about two hundred years ago, the vast majority of Jews observed the Torah and the commandments in entirety. Jewry's leaders were Torah scholars, who directed the people according to the Torah. They were loyal citizens in the host nations where they dwelled and to the local laws. They prayed for the welfare of their respective governments. To our sorrow, at that time a small number of Jews slowly left their observance of Torah and commandments. Together with this, they began to deride the spiritual leadership of their people. This assimilation was the basis upon which, one hundred years ago, the ideology of Zionism was born. Its founders were assimilated Jews who had abandoned the Torah.

Immediately at the founding of the Zionist movement, masses of Jews under the leadership of their Rabbis, launched a heavy battle against Zionism. Their attack was directed not only at the non-religious Zionist idea, but rather, primarily at its opposition to the Torah-ordained path that Jewry must follow while in exile. As such, the Zionists incited the nations of the world, demanding political sovereignty over the Holy Land while remaining oblivious to the resentment this would arouse In the Palestinian Arabs, the land's veteran inhabitants. As stated, the leaders of Orthodox Jewry vehemently opposed the movement with all force.

The Zionists refused to heed the voice of the Rabbis and Torah authority. They persisted in their ways until they succeeded in influencing the British government to issue the Balfour Declaration concerning the "establishment of a national home for the Jews in the land of Israel." To our great sorrow, from that point on began the deterioration of the good relations between the Jews and the Arab inhabitants of the land. This occurred because the Arab people understood that the Zionists wished to seize ruler ship from them. In addition, the Arab people had suspicions as if the Jewish people wished to seize control of the Temple Mount and other similar sites. Matters worsened as a result.

The Jewish leadership of that time saw it as proper to clarify before the Arab leaders that the Torah-true Jews had no desire whatsoever for sovereignty, and that our desire was to continue to live in peace with the Arabs, as we had always done. The leader of the G-d-fearing Jewish community at that time, Rabbi Yoseph Chaim Zonnenfeld. of blessed memory, organized a delegation in July of 24' which visited King Hussein and his sons Faisal the King of Iraq and the Amir Abdullah In order to lucidly present to them the position of the G-d-fearing Jewish community. The Jewish delegation clarified unequivocally that Torah Jewry is totally opposed to the Zionist sovereignty over the Holy Land. It Is worth noting that the delegation was received with great honor. They were even assured that all Arab lands were completely open to Jews, however, on the condition that the Jews do not demand political rights. This condition also applied to the Holy Land. One of the members of the Jewish delegation, Professor Yisroel Yaakov De Haan, paid with his life for his participation.
Torah Jewry protests at every opportunity against the Zionist rule over the Holy Land, and the Zionist rebellion against the neighboring nations. Torah Jewry has condemned the Zionist oppression of the Palestinians, the land's veteran inhabitants who have been driven from their homes and properties. The Zionists' barbaric and violent deeds are absolutely antithetical to the essence of the Jewish people.

Torah Jewry has never ever recognized the Zionist state. Since the Zionists succeeding in establishing their state, Torah Jewry has continuously announced to the world that the Zionists do not represent the Jewish people, and that the name "Israel" that they use is a forgery. For as has been stated above, it is forbidden to us from the Torah to rebel against the nations, and all sovereignty by us is prohibited. Rather, we await the days when all the world will recognize the sovereignty of the Creator, and the words of the prophet Isaiah will yet be fulfilled: "And they will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. No nation will lift its sword against any other, nor will they learn warfare anymore."

Anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews have refrained to this day from taking any funds from the Zionist regime, whether for their educational institutions, synagogues or other benefits. Obviously, they do not participate in the Zionist elections, whether for the "Knesset" or for the municipality. We do not serve in their army, and we even avoid speaking in the Hebrew language that the Zionists Invented. (incidentally, this is not the holy and true Hebrew language in which the Bible is written.) All this is done because Torah Jewry does not recognize the Zionist regime, which Is against the Torah and against humanity.

Lately, the question has once again arisen concerning the Temple Mount and sovereignty over it. Thus, we wish to state unequivocally: a) In our time, it is a severe Torah prohibition for any Jew to set foot on any part of the Temple Mount area. b) The Jewish people have no claim whatsoever to sovereignty over this holy site, which is under Islamic authority, nor over any other holy site. Rabbi Zonenfeld was once asked, "is it true, that the Rabbi prefers an non-Jewish government over all of the Holy Land"? Rabbi Zonenfeld replied, "if King Hussein would rule over Palestine, the holiness of the Holy Land would not be diminished to even to an Iota degree". We yearningly await G-d's great day, when He will return His Divine Presence to Zion, restoring the holy city to its former holiness and glory as in days of old, to be a light to the peoples and the nations.

The Zionists have no right of any sovereignty over even one inch of the Holy Land. They do not represent the Jewish people in any way whatsoever. They have no right to speak in the name of the Jewish people. Therefore, their words, declarations and actions are not in any way representative of the Jewish people. This is because the Zionists' seizing of power over the Holy Land is antithetical to Jewish law, and also because the Zionists do not behave like Jews at all rather, they desecrate the sanctity of the land.
We once again clarify that it is our desire to live in peace with our Arab and Palestinian neighbors, as we did before the Zionist revolution, and as Jews all over the world till today live, accepting the yoke of rulership of their host nation, with complete loyalty. Our sole desire is to serve our G-d and to fulfill His commandments with a perfect heart and to delight in the radiance of the sanctity of the Land.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/notjews.cfm
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 1,671 • Replies: 17
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2009 02:02 pm
Should you go to Israel, you will find that a relatively large percentage of Jews are merely ethnic Jews. These Jews are decendants of Jews, and do not have a religion. They are loyal to the country of Israel, and have every right to reside in Israel.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2009 02:39 pm
@Advocate,
Can a non-Jew become a political Jew and emigrate to Israel or is it a requirement that one converts first to Judaism?
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2009 03:09 pm
@Solve et Coagula,
Quote:
Zionists don't represent Jews


They come closer to it than hamas does....
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2009 08:17 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Can a non-Jew become a political Jew and emigrate to Israel or is it a requirement that one converts first to Judaism?


What is a"political Jew." Regardless, the easiest way to emigrate to Israel possibly, is to marry a Jew, since all Jews can emigrate, based on Israel's law of return (all Jews can emigrate/return to Israel). There are quite a few non-Jewish Russian spouses now residing in Israel with his/her Jewish spouse, I believe. However, a Jew cannot marry a non-Jew in Israel; they must marry outside of Israel, I believe.

Also, I do not know how one proves that one is a Jew. Maybe they need to pronounce Chanukah with the guttural "Ch" sound? Just a joke. I do not know how a Jew proves one is a Jew. Perhaps, there are a few poseur Jews in the world?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2009 10:45 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
What is a"political Jew."


As opposed to a Jew by religion. Perhaps "political" Jew might have helped.

My question remains. There is a dichotomy here. Can a person simply become a Jew without embracing the religious aspect and would that allow that person to emigrate to Israel?
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2009 07:48 am
@JTT,
A few religions have taken on a racial aspect i.e. they are descended from so and so and established a blood line. The Jews draw their race from Abraham's issues and separate from the Muslims with Jacob/Israel. The Muslims also trace their bloodline from Ibrahim/Abraham and Ishmael the first born of Abraham and Hagar the Egyptian hand maiden of Sarai/Sarah when she was still barren. The Shiites trace their leadership blood line from Hussein the nephew of Mohammed, the Prophet. Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Zoroastrians, Christians are not linked to the blood line of the founder or precursor father figure like Abraham. The rivalry between Ishmael and Jacob/Israel for primacy and their legitimacy all add up to a family feud that seems to have no resolution in sight.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2009 10:04 am
@JTT,
The expression is "secular Jew". There are many people who identify themselves as Jews, and feel akin to the culture, but do not practice the religion.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_Jewish_culture
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2009 12:01 pm
@Phoenix32890,
That is the term, Phoenix. Thank you and thank you to Talk72000. That still leaves my original question. Does becoming a secular Jew entitle one to emigrate to Israel?
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2009 12:12 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
The law gives the right of return to those born Jews (having a Jewish mother or grandmother), those with Jewish ancestry (having a Jewish father or grandfather) and converts to Judaism (Orthodox, Reform, or Conservative denominations" not secular " though Reform and Conservative conversions must take place outside the state, similar to civil marriages).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return

Apparently, a person born Jewish has the right to Israeli citizenship, whether a secular Jew or not. A convert to Judaism cannot be secular.
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2009 12:32 pm
@Phoenix32890,
Quote:
Reform and Conservative conversions must take place...


Must take place according to Orthodox rules and regulations. For the female convert, this means the convert-to-be must submerge herself in a Micvah, and a male must subject himself to circumcision.
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2009 12:50 pm
@Solve et Coagula,
Solve et Coagula wrote:


Quote:
A Jew is one who remains faithful to the laws of the Jewish religion, that is, the Holy Torah and its commandments.


If this be the case, why then would any observant Jew not recognize the Jews-for -Jesus movement?
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2009 07:56 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
What is a"political Jew."


As opposed to a Jew by religion. Perhaps "political" Jew might have helped.

My question remains. There is a dichotomy here. Can a person simply become a Jew without embracing the religious aspect and would that allow that person to emigrate to Israel?


Being as specific as my level of knowledge allows me, first let me say I am a fairly secular Jew. I left the religion two hours after my Bar Mitzvah, so to speak. So, what I say may not be entirely correct. But, what I believe is that Israel only recognizes conversions to Judaism by the Orthodox wing of Judaism. Perhaps, they changed to include the Conservative wing; I do not know? Anyway, Rabbis are supposed to DISSUADE a potential convert (I am not talking about the individual that is converting because he/she is marrying someone Jewish). So, if one persists, and becomes an Orthodox Jew, one should be allowed to emigrate to Israel. If I am wrong; very sorry.

Now, by definition, one is a Jew because one's Jewish ancestors (on the mother's side) were Jews. Or, one converts to the religion, regardless of which wing - Orthodox, Conservative, Reformed (there is also a group called Reconstructionist - not too large). So, even if a nice intelligent Gentile eats bagels and lox, reads the New York Times religiously, goes to a big Eastern college and dates many Jews, he/she is not a Jew. He/she may call oneself a Semitophile, if there is such a word, but not an authentic Jew. Any persecution that such an individual would encounter cannot be blamed on being Jewish.

0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2009 08:12 pm
@Miller,
Miller wrote:

Quote:
Reform and Conservative conversions must take place...


Must take place according to Orthodox rules and regulations.
For the female convert, this means the convert-to-be must
submerge herself in a Micvah, and a male must subject himself to circumcision.

What if he has already been circumcised ?
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jan, 2009 11:57 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Miller wrote:

Quote:
Reform and Conservative conversions must take place...


Must take place according to Orthodox rules and regulations.
For the female convert, this means the convert-to-be must
submerge herself in a Micvah, and a male must subject himself to circumcision.

What if he has already been circumcised ?


Just to add my two cents to this question. A circumcized male just has one less obstacle to conversion. Notice in Europe few males get circumcized, and many Americans do. I thought it had something to do with our early Protestant forefathers thinking of themselves as grafted on Jews, or something like that?

Regardless, it has health benefits for the male and any mate.

Muslim males also get circumcized, only later than Jewish males, I believe.

OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jan, 2009 12:37 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Miller wrote:

Quote:
Reform and Conservative conversions must take place...


Must take place according to Orthodox rules and regulations.
For the female convert, this means the convert-to-be must
submerge herself in a Micvah, and a male must subject himself to circumcision.

What if he has already been circumcised ?


Just to add my two cents to this question.
A circumcized male just has one less obstacle to conversion.
Notice in Europe few males get circumcized, and many Americans do.
I thought it had something to do with our early Protestant
forefathers thinking of themselves as grafted on Jews[ ?? ], or something like that?

Regardless, it has health benefits for the male and any mate.

Muslim males also get circumcized, only later than Jewish males, I believe.

Yes; when I was several months old,
after a series of urinary infections,
upon the advice of my physician,
I was circumcized. My older cousins
infomed me that I found it painful,
and I allegedly was screaming for several weeks.
(Fortunately, I do not remember this.)

I am glad of it.
I don t want to look the other way; kinda gross.

I 've never heard the terminology of: "grafted on Jews".
I don t exactly understand what u mean.
It occurs to me that u can mean any of several different things.



David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jan, 2009 12:39 pm
Does anyone have any ideas
of the reason for the difference
between American n European practices qua circumcision ?





David
0 Replies
 
Solve et Coagula
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jan, 2009 04:18 am
@Solve et Coagula,
CHABAD TO EDUCATE YOUNG JEWS ABOUT ZIONIST STATE

myjli.com, Oct 30, 2007

After the release of a recent study that found only half of American Jews under the age of 35 are comfortable with the idea of a Jewish state, the Rohr Jewish Learning Institute, an arm of the Chabad/Lubavitch movement, announced a new six-week course that focuses on the "millennia-old spiritual bond between Jews and Israel." The courses, given in hundreds of locations, are expected to reach 10,000 young Jews.

The Rohr JLI, according to its website, is "the largest institute of adult learning of its kind, operating in over 200 cities around the world. We provide the essentials of Jewish literacy in a series of thoughtfully designed six- and eight-week courses. Every course is accompanied by a student textbook and enhanced by engaging audio-visual presentations."

In an interview, Rabbi Shmuel Kaplan of the JLI Executive Committee said they planned to teach that Jewish history did not begin outside the Land of Israel, but with Abraham's arrival in the Land in Genesis 12. The Jewish people, he said, cannot exist without their land. "Jews can live outside of Israel," he said, "but they must have the concept and bond with the land. The courses will help people answer the question: why is Israel relevant to me?"

Rabbi Kaplan denied that Chabad is shifting its focus toward the State of Israel for general outreach purposes, because it turns people on. "The Lubavitcher Rebbe was very focused on Israel, mentioning it constantly in his discourses," he said. "Many American Jews are against Israel because they are politically to the left of the Israeli government. But our attachment is because of the land, not any particular government."

The courses are scheduled to begin in November 2007, and they are free for anyone under 30 years of age. The instructors will be the Chabad emissaries in cities throughout the United States and the world.


HEAR WHAT THE TRUE TORAH JEWS HAS TO SAY ABOUT:

Here we see Zionism falling out of fashion as a secular movement and gaining as a religious movement. The young generation of secular Jews in America no longer feels a special attachment to the Zionist state, and it is a religious organization, Chabad, that seeks to teach them to be Zionists.

Religious Zionism is more dangerous than the secular variety because it claims to represent the Torah and true Jewish belief, when in fact it is a serious distortion. The Jewish people indeed has an historic connection to the Holy Land, dating to the time of our ancestor Abraham. But for the past 1938 years we have been in exile and are forbidden to make any attempts on our own to regain sovereignty over the Land.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/news/currentarticle.cfm?id=63
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