cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2008 01:31 pm
@hawkeye10,
That's also true, but without the money from the feds, many local projects would not be done.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2008 07:37 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

our electric transmission system is ****
our sewage systems are ****
our water systems can't reliably deliver safe water
our rail system can not move the freight
our intercity passenger rail system is almost non existant and what we do have is 1950's technology other than for Acela which is crap-and which needs a rebuilt NEC (to the tune of $20 billion) railroad to run at modern speeds
coastal erosion is eating Louisiana
New Orleans is not safe and needs a new flood protection system or needs to be abandoned
our national parks have been neglected for decades
we have toxic land (mostly old mining, manufacturing and military sites) that need cleaning up...lots and lots of them.
and so on and so on and so.......


Where on earth do you live?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2008 07:42 pm
@okie,
america
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2008 07:51 pm
@hawkeye10,
Move!
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2008 08:11 pm
@H2O MAN,
I considered that, but decided that renovation is the better option for me.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2008 08:16 pm
@hawkeye10,
My electricity hardly ever is interrupted, my sewage system works fine, especially after I had to call Roto-rooter to remove the tree roots a while back, and the water system is top notch. I see trains moving freight all the time. I don't live in an inner city so I don't have to endure Democratic management of those places. I rode the subways in London and I wouldn't give you a nickel for that smelly disaster waiting to happen, that is not my idea of living, riding that every day. Coastal erosion has happened for hundreds of years, I am sorry to have to inform you, its called nature, don't build a condominium on the beach and expect the government to bail you out after a hurricane destroys it. National parks would be better off if the government or park service would spend the money on the infrastructure instead of bureaucracies in Washington. Old mining areas have minerals in old dumps and mines, hmmmm, I guess nature polluted those areas when they were mineralized, that is part of the problem, but I would not label the rest of the problem anything so dire as to lose alot of sleep over it. Prospectors found alot of those deposits by following "color," otherwise known as mineralization or "toxic land." Are you going to sue God, hawkeye? In fact if you want to see some of the most toxic land, visit Yellowstone National Park and watch the smelly and toxic geysers spew the toxic stuff out on the earth daily and hourly.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2008 08:24 pm
@okie,
Because so long as you get what you want/need screw everyone else.......that much is obvious

Quote:
ASCE estimates that $1.6 trillion is needed over a five-year period to bring the nation's infrastructure to a good condition. Establishing a long-term development and maintenance plan must become a national priority. But in the short term, small steps can be taken by the 110th Congress, as well as state legislatures and local communities, to improve our nation's failing infrastructure

http://www.asce.org/reportcard/2005/index.cfm

Good condition so far as I know is generally meaning not ready to fall apart, but you know what, with as much as we have spent of our kids money we damn well better leave them a country that is in excellent condition. They are going to need to have everything operating in order to make the money to pay down on the credit card bill.

In some ways I envy you OKIE, it must be pleasant going through life not giving a **** about anyone but yourself.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2008 08:29 pm
@hawkeye10,
I pay plenty of taxes, and my local taxes support my local infrastructure. Since when was my local water system the responsibility of the federal government to fix, or since when was your sewer system my responsibility to fix, it should be yours. If your local officials can't do the job, find some that can. Quit being a cry baby and expecting me and everybody else to fix your lousy infrastructure where you live.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2008 08:35 pm
@okie,
I may come off a bit testy over hawkeyes post about everything being so miserable, but honestly doesn't anyone else get tired of chronic complainers, whoa is me, and everything is terrible? If it is so bad where he lives, H2OMAN is right, whey doesn't he move somewhere else? Or at least do something with the local officials that are largely responsible for it. Are they that helpless?

I grew up starting in the late 40's, and just a clue, I do not remember a time ever where people did not complain about roads and highways. And actually after considering the situation, they are probably as good as they have always been. Lots of things are like that, another one is schools. Constantly complain about schools falling in, maybe they are in some places but I see very few that are not new or relatively new or in pretty good condition. Water systems, I know people in that business and the technology has perfected it to a state of the art, and water quality is probably as good or better than ever. Just a few examples.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2008 08:45 pm
@okie,
Bullshit, my life is great and I am not complaining about my life. I am pointing out that WE as a generation have not fulfilled our duties and obligations, both to each other and to our descendants. Citizenship is composed of both rights and obligations. Your obligation is to do what you can to see that what needs to get done gets done. The dollar total on your tax bill is not relevant. If the work is not done, and you have not already done more than your share, then you have a bill to pay.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2008 09:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Bullshit, my life is great and I am not complaining about my life. I am pointing out that WE as a generation have not fulfilled our duties and obligations, both to each other and to our descendants. Citizenship is composed of both rights and obligations. Your obligation is to do what you can to see that what needs to get done gets done. The dollar total on your tax bill is not relevant. If the work is not done, and you have not already done more than your share, then you have a bill to pay.

I agree that we should pay for what we are doing, I do not believe in huge deficits, but I do not walk around with a guilt complex over my duties and obligations over what somebody else is not doing that they should be doing. First of all, I pay all of my taxes, I have paid my way, I have always worked, and I have been one of the foremost on this forum saying that the politicians are not preaching citizenship but should be. Instead, the politicians promise more free lunches to everyone, but instead should be telling people that they are the ones that need to do something, not government. And instead of expecting Washington to send them more money to fix their water systems, or their sewer systems, or their schools, fix them themselves, thats what people with an ounce of pride would do. I think you have it backwards.

We now have a president that got elected by promising more of everything to everyone, without saying what it will cost, or the realities of the situation, as if all of this money will be manufactured out of thin air. The same party that promises all of this stuff is adversarial to business and profits, which is pretty contradictory in my opinion.

All you have to do to see the problem is drive through an area littered with trash and junk cars, with no pride, look at the garbage, the trash. Don't you think its time they picked up the trash and did something to clean things up? That would be a start. Or is it government's responsibility?

We demand such wages, benefits, and regulations that business is driven into a non-competitive mode, or bankrupt, or driven offshore, but then we cannot understand why the economy tanks. We do not have rocket scientists for politicians, thats for sure.
A Lone Voice
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2008 09:54 pm
Not a bad idea, but let's talk about the roadblocks Obama's own party will put up to this plan.

Living in CA, I like to use my former Golden State as a great example of Dem party mismanagement. Wonder why new freeways, which are greatly needed in the state, are rarely built or expanded?

Or why new high schools cost up to $100 million?

It starts with the EIR (Environmental Impact Reports) state regulations require. Then, public school districts have to hire private consultants to shepherd them through the state Dept. of Ed bureaucracy, which is an out of control monster itself.

Build a new roadway on undeveloped land? Ain't gonna happen, with the power environmental groups and their lobby has in Sacramento.

Jobs? Yeah, lot of government, environmental, petty bureaucrat jobs will develop in CA with Obama's plan. But actual roadways, schools, or other improvements?

Not unless there is a change in the way the state does business...
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2008 10:14 pm
@okie,
Quote:
All you have to do to see the problem is drive through an area littered with trash and junk cars, with no pride, look at the garbage, the trash. Don't you think its time they picked up the trash and did something to clean things up? That would be a start. Or is it government's responsibility?


better yet, travel by Amtrak. When traveling by highway what you see is skewed because the highway encourages new development, and because so many people travel down the road various groups work to see that the locals present a good face. But few people travel by train, developments have not sprung up around rail for more than a generation. Traveling by train one sees how America really lives, which often times is in a dump. No self respecting person can live in a disorderly mess surrounded by garbage.

I have often seen accounts of Americans who travel to global slums and other very poor back waters of the globe. Often times the the thing that makes the most impression on them how a family or person with no money none the less lives in a shack with a spotless dirt floor, everything in the hovel seeming to have its own place and all of the people have on colorful clean clothes.

Every American could do the same, but so few seem to actually do it. Unnecessary squalor abounds in America, it speaks to a spiritual problem that exists here, a kind of hopelessness and emptyness.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2008 09:32 am
@roger,
roger wrote:
Then, they're talking about state funding?

Yes, among other things. As I understand it, there will be federal programs too. But federal aid for states to finance state infrastructure spending is a big part of Obama's public works initiative.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2008 12:05 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
.

Every American could do the same, but so few seem to actually do it. Unnecessary squalor abounds in America, it speaks to a spiritual problem that exists here, a kind of hopelessness and emptyness.

Well said, hawkeye. It starts with the individual.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2008 12:18 pm
Obama is confusing, out of one side of his mouth he is proposing some kind of humongous public works initiative, with vague outline of total cost and what it will be spent on, but out of the other side of his mouth he says no more pork. Pork is public works. Does he not know this?

Does he actually think his public works program will be more efficient than a project here or there pushed through on bills? Those are probably more efficient than what some kind of monstrous public works program would be, at least the projects are more targeted and specifically enumerated rather than being some kind of mass spending approach, throwing money in all directions. With Obama's public works program, a huge bureaucracy will result, with a huge pool of money, and who would not want to get a piece of that action? Let your imagination be your guide in regard to justifying why you need the money, and the government wants to spend it, Katie bar the door!

But the biggest and most obvious contradiction, Obama says the end of pork, but at the same time proposes a monstrous program that is basically all pork. Amazing.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/08/news/economy/obama_econ/index.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/06/AR2008120602187.html
0 Replies
 
 

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