Some thoughts re: the election

@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

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with the power of a line-item veto.

That is something the President MUST HAVE.
No matter how much a candidate campaigns against earmarks, if he or she cant veto them line by line, the campaign pledge to stop them is meaningless.
All the congress has to do is include them into a bill they know the POTUS will sign.

This will be the first Obama test. Obama is clearly the head of the Democratic party now and seems to have a lot of stroke right now. Bush demonstrated extreme control over Congress and basically got what he wanted, but he also allowed the pork to grow substantially. If Obama goes in and says "the American public wants to cut the pork, so cut the pork," will Congress say "yes sir" and cut the pork or will they say "you can have your agenda, but the pork is ours"?

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@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

I thought his victory speech was extremely well delivered, but I did think it was a little creepy.

Mysteryman, we have now elected an unknown person, a detached and arrogant man with a hidden agenda, he never was honest and open, never. It is dawning on me the community organizer thing, he learned how to organize thousands of volunteers nationwide, over a million actually, and perhaps even worldwide, and just because the campaign is over, I am warning you that many of those people are not planning on disappearing and going back to work without forgetting their organization, in this case the campaign will not stop, the organization will continue, and his foot soldiers out here intend to remain agitating for whatever agenda he has. Politicians in congress will be caught in the middle, and tremendous pressure will be brought to bear from both directions, the whitehouse, and from Obama's comrades out in society. Obama talks about "getting there," where "there" is he does not explain. We have a strange personality on our hands, and this next 4 years is going to be torturesome, if not downright dangerous for the country.

I feel like a voice crying in the wilderness, but I will continue to speak up, just as almost half of the citizens in this country also get it for the most part. People are extremely nervous, more nervous about a president than any personality ever in the history of the country. And for good reason. The Democrats and the mainstream press foisted this guy onto the electorate, because of one speech, thats it. And because unknowing dupes were unhappy, they voted for change. Well, they are going to get it.

Unity, forget it. When you have a party heading completely into left field, unity on the part of the rest of us would mean compromising everything we stand for, and we know the Democrats do not intend to compromise, never. All the unity and bipartisan promises was nothing but hot air, and I knew they always were. Anyone that believed it was a sucker.

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@okie,

Okie said

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Unity, forget it.

that pretty much sums it up.

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@okie,

Quote:

It is dawning on me the community organizer thing, he learned how to organize thousands of volunteers nationwide, over a million actually, and perhaps even worldwide, and just because the campaign is over, I am warning you that many of those people are not planning on disappearing and going back to work without forgetting their organization, in this case the campaign will not stop, the organization will continue, and his foot soldiers out here intend to remain agitating for whatever agenda he has. Politicians in congress will be caught in the middle, and tremendous pressure will be brought to bear from both directions, the whitehouse, and from Obama's comrades out in society.

More like 3-4 million. And you're Goddamn right; we aren't stopping, we are going to continue to work and push full throttle. Why should we? Why should citizen involvement in politics end at the end of the election? The system actually works better when more people are involved and active. And Obama will leverage our force to get things done, all over the country.

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Unity, forget it. When you have a party heading completely into left field, unity on the part of the rest of us would mean compromising everything we stand for, and we know the Democrats do not intend to compromise, never.

Yes, you are going to have to compromise much of what you 'stand for.' Because much of what the Republican party stands for is greed and inequality amongst men. Get used to it.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@okie,

Quote:

...... he learned how to organize thousands of volunteers nationwide, over a million actually, and perhaps even worldwide, and just because the campaign is over, I am warning you that many of those people are not planning on disappearing and going back to work without forgetting their organization, in this case the campaign will not stop, the organization will continue, and his foot soldiers out here intend to remain agitating for whatever agenda he has.

When I was going to school we were taught that it is a good thing to work to improve things in your community and country, and to become active and work for those candidates you feel will improve things.

Now you've turned the entire concept around into seeming sinister.

Okie, I would hate to see it if they turned a fellow like you loose on the kids who collect soda cans to buy comic books. I can just see you posting about millions of little socialists set loose in our parks and playgrounds, plying their envirowhacko agenda just to get their weekly fantasy fix from drawings of men running around in tights.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

More like 3-4 million. And you're Goddamn right; we aren't stopping, we are going to continue to work and push full throttle. Why should we? Why should citizen involvement in politics end at the end of the election? The system actually works better when more people are involved and active. And Obama will leverage our force to get things done, all over the country.

Well, I read Hitler had 9 million in his youth corp, so you do have a ways to go, keep working. Sure, sure, cyclops, rabid, fanatical citizen involvement always brings great results.

Quote:

Yes, you are going to have to compromise much of what you 'stand for.' Because much of what the Republican party stands for is greed and inequality amongst men. Get used to it.
Cycloptichorn

You are very close to being off your rocker.

By the way, you can answer, anyone here can, how many Obama volunteers are on this board ganging up on anyone and everyone that doesn't toe the line and agree with them? Lets see, theres you, butrfly, sozobe, Diest, I think, who else?

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@okie,

okie have some cheese with that whine, wouldja...

get over it, please, you are becoming rather annoying since the verdict was given.

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@okie,

Hitler comparisons? You're way out there, Okie. Everything is a Hitler comparison when the other side is organizing against you.

Yeah, all us mean Dems are ganging up on you, oh noez!! What are you going to do? We will continue to do so. We are going to gang up on your elected officials and pressure them to pass bills we want. We are going to work to replace every single one of your politicians with OUR politicians. If you're upset about this, I suggest organizing your own faction instead of bitching about it.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

I compared the Hitler thing to illustrate a point, that great involvement does not always equal good results. It depends upon what kind of involvement that it is. And you have essentially admitted this is a concerted effort to destroy the opposition, not come to reasonable compromise. Your style is slash and burn. Your mindset is dangerous.

I believe the founders believed in and set up a representative republic for a very very important reason. This is not a pure democracy, ruled by the masses, and I am fearful that what is going on now is tending toward government ruled by the masses and by intimidation. You and your fellow volunteers have been elected to nothing. True, you are free to express your opinion, but sadly you are bringing more weight to the matter than most people that simply obey the law and leave matters to their congressmen and other elected officials in which they have placed their trust, which is the way it was intended to work. Those elected officials should not have to endure a concentrated mass effort to intimidate them, essentially the liberal special interest group that you are.

I have experienced the intimidation tactics, cut and paste party line, and sarcasm as programmed into you people. It is becoming more clear to me what is going on.

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@okie,

Quote:

rue, you are free to express your opinion, but sadly you are bringing more weight to the matter than most people that simply obey the law and leave matters to their congressmen and other elected officials in which they have placed their trust, which is the way it was intended to work.

So, you are complaining, b/c those who are active in politics are having more influence than those lazy individuals who simply let the government run things? Listen to yourself!

Conservatives better take some personal responsibility and step up to the plate, or the activist Dem base will continue to drive the agenda. And that's not a bad thing; I think greater participation in government is a GOOD thing, you seem to think it's a negative.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Activism is one word, agitator is another, malcontent is another, fanatic is another. You people are fanatical and driven. I think it is very clear what you guys are up to, and I am not one of your dupes, and I know you would love to shut me up. I won't until you come to my door and cart me away.

By the way, give me a thumbs down, go ahead.

1 Reply

@okie,

180 degrees from accurate, Okie. Our leaders should feel somewhat intimidated by their constituencies, not the other way around. There is nothing wrong with holding our elected officials accountable.

Thomas Jefferson wrote:

When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

Activism is one word, agitator is another, malcontent is another. I think it is very clear what you guys are up to, and I am not one of your dupes, and I know you would love to shut me up. I won't until you come to my door and cart me away.

Haha, Okie! Good!

I wish you would be an activist for your side. Do work. Make calls. Write your Congressmen. Donate money. Keep up on issues. Convince your friends and neighbors who disagree with you. I want you to be more involved. I don't want to shut you up. Far from it. On the other hand, YOU want to shut ME and my kind up. You don't want me to work to influence policy and governance. Too bad.

But, if you are going to stay at home; if you are going to be lazy; if you aren't going to work for it, then you don't deserve to be coddled. The Republicans have a long history of activism and support from their base, but that's died out thanks to the recent corruption which has riddled your group. The challenge for Republicans is going to be to find a group who is willing to match our efforts.

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By the way, give me a thumbs down, go ahead.

I've never once given you a thumbs down, Okie. And I doubt I ever will. I don't like collapsing people's posts.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@OCCOM BILL,

Theres a big difference between intimidation and expressing your opinion, civilly, Bill. I think we are seeing a big departure from civility. This is getting downright nasty, and has been for at least 8 years. They destroyed George W. Bush. Unless there is some counterbalance or restraint to this fanaticism, it will not turn out well.

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@okie,

okie wrote:

I compared the Hitler thing to illustrate a point, that great involvement does not always equal good results.

[...]

I have experienced the intimidation tactics, cut and paste party line, and sarcasm as programmed into you people. It is becoming more clear to me what is going on.

What intimidation tactics have you experienced, okie?

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@okie,

okie wrote:

Theres a big difference between intimidation and expressing your opinion, civilly, Bill. I think we are seeing a big departure from civility. This is getting downright nasty, and has been for at least 8 years. They destroyed George W. Bush. Unless there is some counterbalance or restraint to this fanaticism, it will not turn out well.

Bush destroyed himself. Without his myriad mistakes and inability to cogently express himself, the Dems would not have been able to successfully attack him. For you to blame the other side - especially after all the work that your side put into destroying Clinton, I mean, c'mon - is once again a failure of personal responsibility on your part. It isn't Bush's fault that people were against him, it was his fault.

And I'm a perfect example. I voted for him in 2k and it certainly wasn't the Democrats who turned me against him, it was his stupid ******* decision to go to war in Iraq.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Haha, Okie! Good!

I wish you would be an activist for your side. Do work. Make calls. Write your Congressmen. Donate money. Keep up on issues. Convince your friends and neighbors who disagree with you. I want you to be more involved. I don't want to shut you up. Far from it. On the other hand, YOU want to shut ME and my kind up. You don't want me to work to influence policy and governance. Too bad.Cycloptichorn

I am not an activist by nature, cyclops. I basically do not believe in it. It isn't me. Participating on this board is the most fanatical I will ever be. I vote. I inform myself. But marching in the street, or anything more, baloney, a waste of time and is reserved for malcontents and agitators. I am not a groupee for celebrities today, nor for politicians for that matter. None of them walk on water, and Obama is nobody special, he isn't, plain and simple. You and others can weep and sob for joy, as if you have experienced some personal catharsis, no thanks, I never needed it, I did not harbor a bunch of guilt to release.

I hope at least some of you people recover from your hypnotic state at some point.

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

Theres a big difference between intimidation and expressing your opinion, civilly, Bill. I think we are seeing a big departure from civility. This is getting downright nasty, and has been for at least 8 years. They destroyed George W. Bush. Unless there is some counterbalance or restraint to this fanaticism, it will not turn out well.

I neither share your crystal ball, nor see any evidence of this. George Bush is alive, well, and in charge of the country at the moment. Should people choose not to sleep between this election and the next (like usual), their representatives may well feel intimidated into trying to earn their next term by doing the collective’s business in a fashion they approve of. This is as it should be… and if the collective proves to want foolish things; this too can be corrected. At any rate; the man has yet to be inaugurated so your confidence that your over the top fears will be realized sound acutely paranoid. Give the man a chance.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Clinton destroyed himself. And you will find out, with time, that you never destroyed Bush with the spin, and he never destroyed himself, only in your twisted mind, Bush remains a decent man as he always was, with all of his flaws as we all have, but a decent man.

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@OCCOM BILL,

I do not believe in collectivism, occom bill.

1 Reply

Some thoughts re: the election

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