@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Quote:
Your abandonment of ration is not because ration is somehow flawed or incomplete, it is your weakness. Your weakness that you can't accept what ration offers; that it too often directs you away from your perception. You are only defending your ego. You insecurity does not surprise me in the least.
I love how well you pay attention.....I don't abandon reason and ration, but I realize that it is only part of the story. Humans are only partly reasonable and rational, and if we were completely so we would be so machine like that we might as well exterminate ourselves.
I don't deny that humans do things that are motivated by things other than rationality. I'm saying our laws need to be rational. Where the laws is not defined, go ahead and let your emotions rule over your behavior, but not mine.
hawkeye10 wrote:
Because we are only partly rational rationality is only part of the truth that we need to live by.
This notion that somehow you can decide some alternate truth and live by it is fine. It's just not fine that you would make others live by some alternate truth not based in rationality.
hawkeye10 wrote:
You might look back to where I said that we need to look at the results of gay raising kids and of not representing homosexuality, using scientific study, before we move any further in that direction.
Irrelevant. Some gay parents will be terrible, some will be excellent. This kind of suitability evaluation needs to be done on a case by case basis for adoptions. Beyond that, in cases where gays are actually raising their biological offspring, I would fight any measure to remove the child for the sole basis of the mother or father's sexual orientation.
hawkeye10 wrote:
Science is not all of the information that is required for a wise determination on how to handle gays, but if science does not show a problem then I know that the gay rights crowd will get their way.
You think it's your role to "handle gays." It's not. You don't have to like it, but don't posture like this. The majority should not be treating minorities like cattle. Homosexuals are plenty capable of how to handle themselves.
BTW, science keeps moving to convergence on homosexuality, and it isn't helping your argument.
hawkeye10 wrote:
If study shows a problem for society I would fully expect that gays would still claim that they can't be denied what they want, but reasonable rational people would take note and perhaps say that the drive to equality has gone far enough.
I've passed on point this out a few times now, but this kind of statement ignores that it's not just gays fighting for this. Beyond that, this is not a simple measure of "want" or desire or the gays. For someone like myself, I believe that this double standard to oppress gays discounts the liberties afforded to me. I have a great desire for love and companionship in this world, and through my experience with the LGBT community, I can find no rational that they somehow are less deserving than I.
hawkeye10 wrote:
Quote:but I don't desire to police your thoughts or feelings. You can't say the same
I can say the same...society always decides the individuals right to act on their thoughts and feelings, and always has that right.
Stop the double talk. You can act on your thoughts and feelings regarding yourself, not others.
You seem to default to the notion that homosexuality is a choice. However, even if it was a choice, you have yet to support how it is (1) and invalid choice, and (2) even if it was a invalid choice how it affects social order and thus would warrant legal measure.
Instead here we are and you think it's your role to figure out what to with the people that don't think like you. I don't care what you do or think, just don't mess with me. I don't agree with your ideas or thoughts, but I don't seek to validate my ideas about you by taking legal action to hurt you.
I repeat: You cannot say the same.
hawkeye10 wrote:
If you were familiar with my posting history you would know that I constantly say that anything should be able to be talked about, that no person should be persecuted based upon what they believe. The law is supposed be be about actions and not thoughts and feelings for a reason.
Yes, anything can be talked about. I have no problem talking on any topic. I don't think people should be persecuted for their ideas either.
You aren't being persecuted for your ideas just because I don't agree with you. I offer zero desire for you to be persecuted. My only desire is for you to know the limits of where you can exert your will. I believe via rationale that you and people like you have gone too far in exercising power. It's just that simple. I don't need you to like gays, encourage gays, or help gays. You don't have to roll a red carpet out for gays, just don't rip the rug out from underneath them.
hawkeye10 wrote:
Our society is off of the rails and one of the clearest places to see this is that many want to make the law about thoughts and feelings.
The people wanting to police thoughts and feelings are sitting on your side of the fence.
hawkeye10 wrote:
You keep accusing me and others of wanting to criminalize homosexual love but this is not the case.
You make your bed and you can sleep in it. The oppression and criminalization of homosexuals is exactly what you are here arguing for.
hawkeye10 wrote:
I am not even sure that Homosexuality is a problem that should be regulated or depressed, but if it is a problem and we do regulate or act to depress homosexuality it will be to confront heterosexual behaviour, not feelings or thoughts.
So you can come here and whine about people who don't agree with your ideas, but gays who actually are having their rights repressed for their nature and feelings need to know their place?
You can deal with it and grow up. At the end of the day, you are still free to decide how to live your own life in spite of those who disagree with your lifestyle without having to justify with rationality any of your desires or actions.
hawkeye10 wrote:
Expressions of love are actions, and are regulated by law....lots of laws. Sex is regulated by law....lots of laws. Homosexuals should not get a free pass around the normal mechanisms of societal regulation just by virtue of playing the victim of oppression.
Gays aren't looking for a free pass. They deserve their liberty. They aren't harming anyone, and they don't ask anything of you, that you don't ask of them.
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