Prop 8?

They have the right to apply same as I, except not to each other.

This is a social issue, not a legal issue.

The citizens HAVE THE RIGHT to determine how we want to structure our society and the citizens of this Nation have decided a marriage is defined as between one man and one woman.

NO COURT should over-ride the will of the people on social issues.

NO COURT should over-ride the will of the people on social issues.

Woiyo9 wrote:

NO COURT should over-ride the will of the people on social issues.

Idiotic and asinine. Almost every issue is a 'social issue.' What you describe is the exact opposite of the way our founders intended the Judicial branch to work.

Cycloptichorn

Does the parent who rape their child harm you? Does the parent who mistreat their children harm you? If so, how? When a heterosexual couple with children divorce, how does it harm you?

Are Children Raised by Lesbian Couples "Normal?"
Uploaded by ajay on Mar 28, 2005
"Children reared by lesbian couples are just as well-adjusted as kids of heterosexual couples."

That was the lead line in a story posted by the Associated Press on April 3, 1997. My question upon reading this headline is, why is this news? Why is it so hard for people to believe that lesbian couples can raise happy, healthy kids? Not one study, but three, were done to prove this rather obvious finding. Not only did the lesbians in these studies raise normal kids, a researcher at the University of Virginia says you can't tell them apart using standard psychological tests. Normal kids, raised in lesbian homes, wow.

To the researchers I say, thanks for proving the painfully obvious. Those who think children will turn out sick and twisted living in lesbian homes need to visit a few. I can understand the stereotype. Maybe they think we'll constantly be having sex in front of the kid, or telling them how evil men are. Well, anyone who has been married awhile knows sex is the first thing to go, and as for the evil factor of men (or people in general) that's something children tend to pick up on their own without help from parents.

Case in point: I told my oldest sister that my partner and I were planning on having a child soon. She said, "I wouldn't raise a child in that environment." Well, what environment is that? One where the child is carefully planned for, wanted, loved and provided for by two committed and caring adults? She's right!! How stupid could we have been. When there are so many children out there living with single parents, or in some socially-acceptable heterosexual households that are filled with psychological and physical abuse, how could we have been so selfish as to think we could raise a child better than (or at least as well as) heterosexuals? "You know what I mean," she snapped. No, I honestly don't know what she means.

People often believe being raised in a home full of gay people will make you turn gay. Well, I for one, was raised in a home full of heterosexuals and somehow it didn't rub off on me. Lord knows they tried to make me straight, but you can't mess with what God gave you. If a lesbian's child is heterosexual, nothing the lesbian mother does will make them gay.

Another objection I have faced as I've contemplated raising children: "How will they deal with the prejudice and teasing from kids at school?" Well, the obvious answer here is it would not be a problem if other parents didn't teach their kids to be prejudiced. I intend to teach my child that everyone is different. That's not a value judgment, it is mere fact. My child's family will be different from other children's families. We are no better, we are no worse, we are just different. Keep your opinions (and your misguided Bible quotes) off my life, thank you very much.

Teaching tolerance is key for parents. Kids get their world view from their parents. Most studies done on children raised in lesbian or gay homes show the children are often more tolerant of others than children raised in heterosexual homes. The children are taught to not judge others and remain open-minded in unfamiliar situations.

Some of the more interesting findings in these studies is how involved both parents are in lesbian parenting arrangements versus heterosexual couples. For example:
· 90% of the lesbian co-parents assumed the common child-raising tasks. Only about 37% of the fathers in heterosexual couples, however, took an active role.
· In disciplining the children, 60% of the lesbian co-parents took an active role, while it was only 20% of the fathers in heterosexual families. (Readers Digest, 1999)

Wouldn't Dr. Laura be proud to find so many lesbians are their kids' moms in very active ways?

These studies included women who had children by artificial insemination. Let me just state plainly, getting pregnant this way is more challenging than lowering the lights and opening a bottle of wine. You must take your temperature, guage ovulation, and get to the sperm as fast as possible. It can take months. With this type of dedication to having a child, you can bet there are no UNWANTED children in the lesbian community. There are no accidental children, there are only WANTED and LOVED children of homosexuals.

Generally, I'm very glad to see researchers are taking the reality of lesbian parents seriously enough to study them. It proves what lesbians already know ... we can be good parents, and proves to the world at large what they may not know ... lesbians can be good parents.

True, parenting is not a skill easily mastered. Not everyone is good at it, and all parents make mistakes. A parent's sexual orientation, however, has nothing to do with how good of a parent they are. Parents, of all sexual orientations, are people, fallible and weak. Raising children takes patience, time and money. Lesbians and straights alike may have varying degrees of these resources, but turn out good kids everyday. Lesbian parents are not the norm, but as these studies show, their kids are normal. We must remember Jeff Dahmer's parents were heterosexual, so were Charles Manson's. I can't cite an example of a serial killer or other freak raised by lesbians. Does this prove we're better? No, probably not, but it proves no parent is perfect, gay or straight.

Sexual orientation of the parent has littleS to do with how children turn out. Parents are responsible for teaching their children how to live with integrity, pride and love. They need to know how to balance their ambition with the needs of others. They need self-confidence and the knowledge that their parents love them unconditionally. These are taught by example. That depends of the depth of character of the parent, not the sex of the person they take to bed each night. I'm sure there are "bad" lesbian mothers, just as there are "bad" heterosexual parents. Being a heterosexual parent doesn't make you a better parent, just a more socially acceptable one.

the goal of equality was always unobtainable, as as the problems for society pile up pouring energy into trying to reach equality seems like frivolity.

Now is the time to separate the wheat from the chaff anyways, those who are contributing to the society are good, those who are draining from the society are bad.

If for instance having kids grow up in gay homes is going to place a burden on society then my response is that we can't mess with that right now. If gaining gay rights going to be a fight and need to be endlessly debated then we don't have the time right now, we have more important things to worry about than whether gays get what they want. Their desires for more from this society can wait, and should wait.

If children form gay homes (and this is not proven one way or the other because we refuse to apply science to the question because we don't want to know the answer) suffer from gender confusion or grow up lacking an education in the masculine/feminine dynamic which is required for maintaining a quality heterosexual relationship as an adult then society not only has the right to apply protective measures, but a responsibility to do so.

The Effects of Marriage, Civil Union, and Domestic Partnership Laws on the Health and Well-being of Children
Mark McConnell, MD, FAAP, FCCP
Pediatric Intensive Care
St Luke's Children's Hospital
Boise, ID 83712
To the Editor."

I read with great concern the article entitled "The Effects of Marriage, Civil Union, and Domestic Partnership Laws on the Health and Well-being of Children."1 This article seemed to be published more for political expediency than for its scientific contribution to the practice of pediatrics. I believe that this article is pseudoscientific because it does not share any original research and its review of the medical literature regarding the impact of homosexuality on children, families, and society is significantly biased. This article would have been better suited for the commentary section of Pediatrics.

Although the first part of the article is presented as an unbiased review of marriage laws, the reader is certainly left with the impression that such laws are unfair or discriminatory toward homosexual couples, although these laws were passed by a majority of the legislators or voting public. The second half of the article is a biased review of the literature regarding the outcomes of children raised in homosexual relationships. Even a cursory review of the literature on homosexuality would demonstrate the significant negative health consequences of the homosexual lifestyle with its resulting burdens on the family. The authors do not give a balanced review, nor do they highlight the significant methodologic problems in the studies they do present.2"4

Previous research on lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transsexual (LGBT) people has demonstrated that LGBT people as a whole (1) have a much higher incidence of drug addiction to methamphetamines and cocaine than heterosexuals,5,6 (2) were more likely to be victims of domestic violence,5,6 (3) were twice as likely to be on psychotropic medications,5,7 (4) have higher incidence of non-HIV sexually transmitted diseases,8 and (5) have a significantly increased risk of suicidal ideation and suicide completion.7,9 In addition, homosexual men have a life expectancy that is 8 to 20 years less than heterosexual men10,11 and are much less likely to be involved in monogamous relationships.12 Also, legal homosexual marriages in Norway and Sweden were more likely to end in divorce than heterosexual marriages.13 The Pawelski et al study fails to address the implications of these facts on the well-being of children.

In addition, the article fails to acknowledge multiple studies that date back to the work of Erik Eriksen that demonstrate that the input of both a mother and father are important for the normal psychosocial development of children.13"15 Research has also demonstrated that children raised in homes with intact heterosexual marriages do better psychosocially and educationally than children raised in other settings, including single-parent homes, step-family homes, or in homes with homosexual relationships.16,17


REFERENCES


Pawelski JG, Perrin EC, Foy JM, et al. The effects of marriage, civil union, and domestic partnership laws on the health and well-being of children. Pediatrics. 2006;118 :349 "364[Free Full Text]
Schumm WR. What was really learned from Tasker and Golombok's (1995) study of lesbian and single parent mothers? Psychol Rep. 2004;94 :422 "424[CrossRef][ISI][Medline]
Lerner R, Nagai AK. No Basis: What the Studies Don't Tell Us About Same-Sex Parenting. Washington, DC: Marriage Law Project; 2001
Rekers G, Kilgus M. Studies of homosexual parenting: a critical review. Regent Univ Law Rev. 2001"2002;14 :343 "382
Cochran BN, Cauce AM. Characteristics of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender individuals entering substance abuse treatment. J Subst Abuse Treat. 2006;30 :135 "146[CrossRef][ISI][Medline]
Pitts M, Smith A, Mitchell A, Patel S. Private Lives: A Report on the Health and Wellbeing of GLBTI Australians. Melbourne, Victoria, Australia: Australian Research Center in Sex, Health & Society; 2006
Fergusson DM, Horwood LJ, Beautrais AL. Is sexual orientation related to mental health problems and suicidality in young people? Arch Gen Psychiatry. 1999;56 :876 "880[Abstract/Free Full Text]
Mosher WD, Chandra A, Jones J. Sexual behavior and selected health measures: men and women 15"44 years of age, United States, 2002. Adv Data. 2005;(362) :1 "55[Medline]
Herrell R, Goldberg J, True WR, et al. Sexual orientation and suicidality. Arch Gen Psychiatry. 1999;56 :867 "874[Abstract/Free Full Text]
Hogg RS, Strathdee SA, Craib KJ, O'Shaughnessy MV, Montaner JS, Schechter MT. Modelling the impact of HIV disease on mortality in gay and bisexual men. Int J Epidemiol. 1997;26 :657 "661[Abstract/Free Full Text]
Van de Ven P, Rodden P, Crawford J, Kippax S. A comparative demographic and sexual profile of older homosexually active men. J Sex Res. 1997;34 :354
Andersson G, Noack T, Weedon-Fekjar H. Divorce risk patterns in same-sex marriages in Norway and Sweden. Presented at: annual meeting of the Population Association of America. April 1"3, 2004; Boston, Massachusetts
Byrd AD. Gender complementarity and child-rearing: where tradition and science agree. Available at: www.narth.com/docs/gendercomplementarity.html. Accessed September 11, 2006
Pruett KD. The paternal presence. Fam Soc. 1993;74 :46 "54[ISI]
Cabrera NJ, Tamis-LeMonda CS, Bradley RH, Hofferth S, Lamb ME. Fatherhood in the twenty-first century. Child Dev. 2000;71 :127 "136[CrossRef][ISI][Medline]
Sarantakos S. Children in three contexts: family, education and social development. Child Aust. 1996;21 :23 "31
Manning WD, Lamb KA. Adolescent well-being in cohabitating, married, and single-parent families. J Marriage Fam. 2003;65 :876 "893[CrossRef][ISI

In all its work, the AAP is committed to calling attention to the inextricable link between the health and well-being of all children, the support and encouragement of all parents, and the protection of strong family relationships. This analysis was prepared to bring to light the legal, financial, and psychosocial ramifications of recent and proposed public-policy initiatives affecting same-gender parents and their children.

Civil marriage is a legal status that promotes healthy families by conferring a powerful set of rights, benefits, and protections that cannot be obtained by other means. Civil marriage can help foster financial and legal security, psychosocial stability, and an augmented sense of societal acceptance and support. Legal recognition of a spouse can increase the ability of adult couples to provide and care for one another and fosters a nurturing and secure environment for their children. Children who are raised by civilly married parents benefit from the legal status granted to their parents.

Gay and lesbian people have been raising children for many years and will continue to do so in the future; the issue is whether these children will be raised by parents who have the rights, benefits, and protections of civil marriage. Same-gender couples are denied the right to civil marriage in every state except Massachusetts and the right to civil union except in Connecticut and Vermont. The federal government and other state governments do not recognize those civil marriages and civil unions.

There is ample evidence to show that children raised by same-gender parents fare as well as those raised by heterosexual parents. More than 25 years of research have documented that there is no relationship between parents' sexual orientation and any measure of a child's emotional, psychosocial, and behavioral adjustment. These data have demonstrated no risk to children as a result of growing up in a family with 1 or more gay parents. Conscientious and nurturing adults, whether they are men or women, heterosexual or homosexual, can be excellent parents. The rights, benefits, and protections of civil marriage can further strengthen these families.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07161/793042-51.stm

Anderssen, N., Amlie, C., & Ytteroy, E. A. (2002). Outcomes for children with lesbian or gay parents: A review of studies from 1978 to 2000. Scandinavian Journal of Psychology, 43, 335-351.

Reviewed 23 empirical studies published between 1978 and 2000 on nonclinical children raised by lesbian mothers or gay fathers (one Belgian/Dutch, one Danish, three British, and 18 North American). Twenty studies reported on offspring of lesbian mothers, and three on offspring of gay fathers. The studies encompassed a total of 615 offspring (age range 1.5-44 yrs.) of lesbian mothers or gay fathers and 387 controls, who were assessed by psychological tests, questionnaires, or interviews. Seven types of outcomes were found to be typical: emotional functioning, sexual preference, stigmatization, gender role behavior, behavioral adjustment, gender identity, and cognitive functioning. Children raised by lesbian mothers or gay fathers did not systematically differ from other children on any of the outcomes. The studies indicate that children raised by lesbian women do not experience adverse outcomes compared with other children. The same holds for children raised by gay men, but more studies should be done. (PsycINFO Database Record. Copyright © 2002 by the American Psychological Association. All rights reserved.

What do you expect from any research done at a "St Luke's Children's Hospital?" Show us studies done by unbiased studies with no axe to grind one way or another

Quote:

What do you expect from any research done at a "St Luke's Children's Hospital?" Show us studies done by unbiased studies with no axe to grind one way or another

I can't, sex science has long been corrupted by politics, that is the problem. I am with you, I want solid pure science. The first hurtle is finding funding for it, the second is funded good unbiased researches to to the studies, and the third is finding subjects that are honest and cooperative even if the results are not what they want (homosexuals want, not need, to prove the the majority that their kids are just fine.)