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2 arrested for hanging Obama effigy on Ky. campus

 
 
Woiyo9
 
Reply Fri 31 Oct, 2008 05:58 am
Wait one minute!!!!!!!!! When Palin was "hung", no charges were filed in Calif.

Why the double standard?

"LEXINGTON, Ky. -- A University of Kentucky student and another man were arrested Thursday, accused of hanging a life-sized likeness of Barack Obama from a tree on the campus.

The incident was one of several in recent weeks involving effigies of the presidential candidates or their running mates. No charges have been filed in four other cases that have made national headlines.

UK Interim Police Chief Joe Monroe said the men "expressed remorse for a stunt that had gotten out of hand."

Arrested were Joe Fischer, 22, a UK student, and Hunter Bush, 21, both of Lexington. Both were being held at Fayette County Detention Center on charges of disorderly conduct related to the hanging of the effigy. They were also charged with burglary and theft at a fraternity house where police said the materials came from.

Lt. Tina Strange, a deputy jailer at the detention center, did not know who the men's attorneys were. She said they were each being held on $7,600 bond.

Monroe said the two men told detectives they decided to hang the effigy after seeing media reports about a Sarah Palin effigy in California."

http://www.kentucky.com/471/story/574675.html
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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 1,274 • Replies: 18
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Oct, 2008 06:19 am
@Woiyo9,
As we all know, American police departments are populated by liberals.

But aside from that obvious fact, we'll just note that the Kentucky good old boys didn't string up an effigy of that other VP nominee...the white guy.

And of course, lynchings in America almost always involved angry black people stringing up white folks, which makes this all the more confusing.
Woiyo9
 
  0  
Reply Fri 31 Oct, 2008 06:29 am
@blatham,
You missed the whole point you dummy! Rolling Eyes
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Oct, 2008 06:39 am
@Woiyo9,
He didn't miss the point, he explained why there is a double standard. There is not a history of mobs dragging white women from their homes and lynching them in this country. That said, I think these guys have a decent first amendment argument. While repugnant, their display was clearly political speech.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Oct, 2008 06:41 am
@Woiyo9,
The point being that the earlier instance is what caused them to do it? OK. And then there was the even earlier one from the christian campus in Oregon where they done hanged Obama and that, obviously, caused the later Palin one. Do I have your reasoning straight?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Oct, 2008 06:47 am
It's also pretty damned silly to allege a double standard when the two incidents were separated so much in space. California and Kentucky are two different states, thousands of miles apart, leaving aside altogether the very local nature of policing in this country, where most police forces and prosecutorial decisions are in the hands of municipal authorities.

Someone start a whiny, sour grapes tag for this thread.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Oct, 2008 02:28 pm
@Woiyo9,
Quote:
"LEXINGTON, Ky. -- A University of Kentucky student and another man were arrested Thursday, accused of hanging a life-sized likeness of Barack Obama from a tree on the campus.

Maybe if they did it on their own private property (like the Palin effigy) things might have been different. Community areas and public property are covered by different laws.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 08:00 am
@rosborne979,
Does anyone know what laws they are charge under?
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 08:20 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Arrested were Joe Fischer, 22, a UK student, and Hunter Bush, 21, both of Lexington. Both were being held at Fayette County Detention Center on charges of disorderly conduct related to the hanging of the effigy. They were also charged with burglary and theft at a fraternity house where police said the materials came from.


They are charged with burglary and theft.

It seems the main charges really have nothing to do with hanging the effigy but rather the crimes they committed before hanging it.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 09:32 am
@parados,
Quote:
They are charged with burglary and theft.

It seems the main charges really have nothing to do with hanging the effigy but rather the crimes they committed before hanging it.


OH Please, you can't seriously believe that load of bull......the police went shopping for a charge, the offense was their offensive political speech.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 11:39 am
Political speech of any kind on a state-owned, -operated and -funded site is offensive. I was long the employee of the State Universities Civil Service System of a populous midwestern state, and political canvassing, campaigning or political promotion of any kind was grounds for immediate dismissal, which AFSCME (American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees) would not appeal or fight in court. On state property, on the state's dime, you are not allowed to indulge in political speech, except in so far as an event is sponsored by the University itself, which is obliged to give equal time.

What a bunch of whiners.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 02:48 pm
@Setanta,
On state property, on the state's dime, you are not allowed to indulge in political speech, except in so far as an event is sponsored by the University itself, which is obliged to give equal time
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What complete nonsense this is not a case of state employees campiangning on state time but a case of students who are paying the state for an eductaion exercising free speech rights it would seem.

And yes you do not loss your right to free speech on public property that you have every right to be on as a student.

No I don't think it was a wise thing to do and I am in fact an Obama supporter still arresting these fools are over the top in my opinion.


0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 03:14 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
Political speech of any kind on a state-owned, -operated and -funded site is offensive


The word has never gotten out to the students at state funded universities that that are not allowed to be political. Student politics had a huge effect at universities during the sixties, but almost never did anyone go so low as to claim that these students did not have political rights, or the right specifically to political expression.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 03:48 pm
@hawkeye10,
Oh.. and your evidence is what?

They were charged for disorderly conduct for the effigy.

The police didn't have to manufacture the theft charge since they already had the crime for the effigy.
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 05:44 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

Oh.. and your evidence is what?

They were charged for disorderly conduct for the effigy.

The police didn't have to manufacture the theft charge since they already had the crime for the effigy.


good thing they weren't at kent state. ya know what political free speech gets ya there...
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 07:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
Hawkeye wrote:
The word has never gotten out to the students at state funded universities that that are not allowed to be political. Student politics had a huge effect at universities during the sixties, but almost never did anyone go so low as to claim that these students did not have political rights, or the right specifically to political expression.


Having been a student in university in the 1960s, there's nothing you can tell me about it. Right along side the leftwing SDS was the rightwing YAF, and by the terms of university policies, their activities were illegal without prior consent by the university authorities. This was often made clear when campus police or local police stepped in. The Kent State incident made it clear that the National Guard could be called in, too, and Kent State was simply notorious, it wasn't the only incident during which the National Guard were called in. At Southern Illinois University in 1970, Delyte Morris, the President of SIU, asked for the National Guard, who literally took over the entire town, and the university was shut down with the entire student body expelled, and Morris' career ended.

You're not very good at this sort of thing. I did not at any time say that people don't have the right of political expression. I did not at any time say that students have no right to be political. I did point out that universities, especially state-supported universities, have policies, which are legal, which control what kind of political expression is permitted, and the circumstance under which it is permitted.

At such time as you have a response to that, and which doesn't involve the attempt to put words in my mouth that i haven't said, perhaps there will be something to discuss.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 07:40 pm
@parados,
Quote:
Oh.. and your evidence is what?

They were charged for disorderly conduct for the effigy.

The police didn't have to manufacture the theft charge since they already had the crime for the effigy.


Quote:
After following leads and conducting interviews, investigators determined that Fischer and Bush had asked members of a University of Kentucky fraternity for items to make the effigy but did not tell the fraternity members why they wanted them, Monroe said.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/10/30/obama.effigy/index.html

In what deluded Parados world is asking for and receiving a idem without informing the gift giver of the intended use justify a allegation of the crime of theft?? Only a prosecutor stretching on his tippy toes for a charge would conclude that this is just.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 07:44 pm
@Setanta,
"Political speech of any kind on a state-owned, -operated and -funded site is offensive" does not match "I did not at any time say that people don't have the right of political expression. I did not at any time say that students have no right to be political"

You sir, did not say what you claim that you said.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 07:57 pm
for the record, universities have the right to maintain order in the academic environment and thus to limit free speech there. They also have the right to limit free speech when fees are collected from students without being voluntary and when university funds are being used. The university has the right to limit free speech when the safety of the students is in question. And that is it, the University has no grounds to limit free speech otherwise.
0 Replies
 
 

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