What income is "middle class"?

Although this amount of money in Kansas as a single person would be close to being rich!

you guys need to realize how well you got it. a vacation are you kidding me? you take vacations? i dont know one single person in my entire network that has the ability to take a vacation.

i had to get laid off to get a vacation. hahaha thats quite funny now that i look back...


i most definitely know what im talking about. you are just comparing yourselves to people who make way more money than you.

one thing i must concede, is i am childless, which improves things substantially.

i still say middle class is 50,000 a year.

I'm not comparing - what I am saying is I am not rich. Rich is when you can go buy whatever you want whenever you want. When you don't need to budget - when you can buy more than average.

Average is going on one vacation a year - I am not saying I don't have it good. We have more than some and less than some.

Jeepers that sounds like in the middle! Average!

Curious where you live where and if you are single - that would answer why 50k would be great. When I was single I made less than 50K.

sin central, the gilded palace of lies.

las vegas.

bringing family into the mix ups the bracket a bit..

That's a problem with your network then.

and, "How good I've got it"? I bust my ass for what I've got; it's not like it's fallen in my lap. It's taken a lot of hard work, sacrifice, and good decisions on my part.

Probably the most important ingredient to success. I've worked with lower class and poor people for years, many of them work very hard, but often they don't work smart. A few bad decisions can keep a person in the gutter for their entire lives.

Agree with maporsche about not having vacations being a network problem (also a cultural one: some guys can't live without work).

Will insist on middle class or rich being also a power issue. If you own or run the business, and earn good money, you're rich. Or if you're in the top echelons of your profession. If you are not among the best paid people in your profession and/or live from a salary/wage, it's more probable that your're "middle class", or lower.

Notices that you measure income before taxes.
We don't do it that way. I don't think I can easily calculate my income before taxes, since they are taken from me beforehand (would need to read the fine print little number in my receits: so much for social security, so much for social housing, so much for income tax, so much for pension fund, and so on...).


Oh, and Ogionik, social class is also relative to the amount of savings.
The way you'd spend 100 grand tells me it'll be hard for you to be rich.

I agree. I came from a very poor household (6 kids, lived in a 3 bedroom, single-wide trailer, parents made probably 30k combined, on welfare, etc).

Many in my family chose to spend their time trying drugs, drinking, hanging out with the wrong people, quitting jobs w/o fallback plans, etc. I didn't, so now I'm able to discuss how making 125k doesn't qualify me as rich, and my brother for example is a line cook at a resturant, spending his money on booze and drugs.

Crazy how that stuff works out.

Don't you have a problem with "family communism"?
I mean, like having your mother say: "maporsche, you're well off, and your poor bro, who works as a cook, needs money for his mortgage or will lose his house".
Here it's considered "natural" (and it springs the stereotype that Americans are "selfish" and "not family oriented").

I used to give money to my family; but after a few bad experiences I no longer do. I buy them gifts here and there, but never dole out straight cash. I told my overweight brother that I'd give him $1000 if he finished a marathon to entice him to lose weight. I have a few other condition related 'bets' going on with family members along similar lines.

I have a few nephews that I've set up college saving's plans for, but these are in my control, not the parents.

I'm not selfish, but I'm not stupid either. If I gave cash, it'd be booze, drugs, or DVDs/stereo equipment.

There are 2 family members who I'd lend/give money too, but the other 3 have burned too many bridges.

I understand the stereo equipment thing, but what have you got against booze and drugs?

Nothing against them unless your asking me for money. If you can't afford the mortgage, you can't afford to be buying booze/drugs.

One of my brothers, can't keep a job, can't seem to afford an apartment, but can always afford a 12 pack, a dime bag, and a pack of smokes.

I totally agree.

My wife has 12 siblings. One lives far away. 2 or 3 have, or have had, enough money to live middle class. You can't give cash to my mother-in-law, for she'll give it away to some of the other seven "children" (ages 34 to 55) "in need", and then be herself in real need.
So you pay part of the rent, part of her doctor's bills, part of a vacation. And help some of the others in a different way.

It was hard for my brother to understand that it was not "natural" that only I financed our mother when she was ill (hospital bills, stay-at-home nurse, etcetera). We had some very tough discussions ("Mexican bricklayers in the US pass hunger and cold just to send their mothers a few hundred dollars a month, you have a decent job over there and don't send a cent!"), but as years passed -and our mom passed away- he became a more mature person, understood what I meant, and has dutifully been paying, little by little, his overdue half over the past three years.

i dont undertsand how i wouldnt be rich, id be fuckin super rich.

i live way to frugally. sometimes hurting myself by not dipping into my savings but thats whats its for, the future.

my gma is the same way, give her money shes gives it to her

*venting moment*

******* STUPID **** DAUGHTER AND HER GIRLFRIEND WHO ARE ALREADY BEHIND ON RENT AND THEY LIVE WITH MY GRAHMA, THERE ARE 4 ******* ADULTS IN A HOUSE 3 ARE WORKING AND THEY CANT AFFORD 600 DOLLARS IN RENT FOR A 3 BEDROOM HOUSE WITH A FRONT AND BACK YARD?and noone can ******* clean?

WHAT THE ****!?!?!?!?! i have the same genes as my family, thats disturbing...

AND THEY DESTROYED THE HOUSE? I MEAN THE PISS STARTED ROTTING THE WOOD UNDER THE FLOOR..

AHAHHAHA!! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR wtfwtfwftwftwtftwfwtfwtwftwftwft

Maybe a discussion on wealth versus security would be helpful. One can have a salary that secures them (a utilitarian measurement that probably would need to include costs like health care) but they may not be gaining much capitol.

Defining "rich" may not be a good objective.

T
K
O

Maybe it's just pointless to debate rich/middle class with someone who lives at home, doesn't have a job, and posts about the drugs he decides to do.

I agree! It's pointless to discuss "middle class" with someone who hasn't finished his education yet and is at the beginning of his career/or lack thereof.

On the other hand, most of the people on a2k are much older and have had the opportunity to finish their education and build up their assets.

I personally don't compare "middle class" to income necessarily. Friends of mine have a P.h.D, are in their 40s and work in academia which means they're cash poor but nonetheless "middle class". Another friend inherited a multi million dollar mansion at the beach from her estranged father. She's living there with her husband and 3 kids. She's a stay-at-home Mom and he's a teacher, they don't have too much money, but are perceived as very wealthy due to the home they live in. They see themselves as "lower middle class" though. I live in an affluent community and when I compare myself to some of my neighbors, I consider myself dirt poor.

So in essence "middle class" encompasses a wide spectrum of people and a wide spectrum of income, and that's exactly why politicians make use of the term.

Yeah I mentioned a family of four at 100k is not rich. Especially in the Boston area

However, it's nearly exactly the double of the Real Median Household Income.