When Will We Have Gay TV Shows and have it be normal?

Wasn't Will and Grace a normal gay TV show?

But there wasn't any intimate moments on Will and Grace, between same sex, was there?

I'm thinking I've seen some kissing between same sex, but I think it was on HBO. Like the Wire...

Hmmmm. I'm still a little squeamish about watching men kissing men and women kissing women, I figure that millions of people are for whatever reason, but give me a good solid show, well written and not just out for the gag and I sure will watch it. Fraser was close, right?

There were same sexed kisses (or at least one) and often men leaving from men's bedrooms. Relationships/dating scenarios were spoken about.

In Will & Grace, were there ever scenes where either male character was in bed with a lover? Just lounging around? Will in particular had a few ongoing relationships and they dealt with various issues. But the physical was very limited, wasn't it? (I didn't watch it during it's network run but catch it sometimes on cable now.)

Exactly. The gay relationships don't show them being intimate, but will show Grace in bed with her sleepover date and probably even a kiss or two. They might show Will coming out of the bedroom, but not getting up while his same sex sleepover date strretches and reaches out for him to stay in bed a little longer.

It wouldn't even have to be a sitcom. Just as a way of starting to introduce it, it could be simple scenes like I described above showing up on currently popular tv drama's.

I'm not talking porn or watching their tongues tango. I don't want to see straights doing that either.

With more states recognizes same sex relationship rights, I think presenting them as "normal" would go a long way towards changing attitudes.

Wasn't it the "Grey's Anatomy" cast a few years ago where all of the hoopla took place, Isiah Washington got into a fight with Patrick Dempsey and tossed off a sexual slur, forcing a gay actor on the show to come out of the closet? Now, that seemed like a ripe opportunity for the writers to let that character loose on the show as well. I don't watch this show either (I watch mostly cable with some PBS thrown in) but I believe this gay actors' character on the show was straight and in a hetero relationship. It would have been very interesting if he'd started dating a man, wouldn't it? Imagine the various things they could have done with that premise? Was he on the downlow? Did he cheat on the woman? Was he cheating on the guy? Maybe he couldn't make up his mind? Boy! The Christian Right would have lost their minds but it would have been the talk around the water cooler, huh? The show was already mad-popular. If they'd had the balls, they would have taken the chance. And that's the problem. No one has the nerve to do it. Nobody wants to be first.

The L Word

"The L Word is the intimate story about the lives and loves of a group of lesbian friends living in Los Angeles. The show has received a lot of praise for its brilliant storylines and its portrayal of the lesbian community."

I don't want to see that crap on tv.....now where is my Strapon lovers volume 6 dvd?

There's a cable channel, LOGO, marketed towards gays and lesbians. But Squinney is talking network tv.

The L Word? Staz and I have been watching season 1 and 2 of that, through the internet of course because we dont have TV and are in Hungary. But it pretty much fits the bill - a soap series, basically, about a loosely knit circle of friends who are all lesbian.

There's the occasional sexy time, while overall it's really just like any other soap series aimed at the Sex in the City-age and -type crowd (lessay, 20- and 30-something, urban career women).

We stopped watching it because it was getting seriously on our nerves (ok, mine in particular) - too many characters I didnt like, too depressing, too, I dunno - soap-series-ish. The sex scenes were pretty cool tho.

Ah, okay. The L Word is broadcast by ... {goes off to look it up} ... Showtime. What's that, cable?

Yes, Showtime is cable / pay tv. They take a few more risks than network, but it sounds like it's still playing to some stereotypes. I haven't seen it. Just looked up the synopsis and saw a few script lines.

Isn't the US about the last place on earth that still thinks that way?

The camera crew is on their way over to your house.

give me a ******* break....