Comfort - need it - having panic attacks.....

By the way - foxes amaze me. Doggies with kitty cat eyes.

I have a friend who was taken to the hospital in a panic attack (told the breathing thing) and have had it a few times myself. (Can't remember at the moment if I posted on that earlier in this thread, but with me it mostly has to do with driving at the edge of cliffs, or as it is getting dark, since my vision shuts down around then. I make a lot of effort not to do that, not only for me but the rest of the world. I go into major tharn in those rare situations, tharn being a term from a popular book, Watership Down. I think it was Strawberry the Rabbit that dealt with Tharn.. My x but respected business partner had a horrid time driving over bridges, while being near fearless, no kidding, in the rest of life. Well, she did rodeo as a kid and is a serious sailor. In contrast to moi.

JL, you're doing well.
Nag me to talk with you re a book..

jespah said,
So many things are so wonderful. Wacky things. Sandals. Statues of Buddha. Good-smelling conditioner. The sound of French being spoken. Finger snapping. Magic shows. Sports bloopers. Fluffy towels. Toothpaste. I dunno. Lots of little miracles, all over the place, everywhere you look.

So true, always has been for me. I'm now fairly shot on senses of hearing, smelling, seeing (the best of those three) and am presumably lame in taste tests.
The joy remains... the piquance of everyday minutes of observation, sensation or thought.

.

everything about life can be wonderful, if you view the world as an ever changing work of art; every experience is art, then everything is beautiful. if any of you have ever read the idea of the eternal recurrence that Nietzsche came up with, that idea that in order to just live life you should "affirm everything", then you might know what I'm saying. I do not really like the idea of the eternal recurrence, however the affirmation of everything is very appealing; one simply affirms one's life as it is, you can still change your life, but no matter what happens, it happens and you just accept. "accept" is not the best word to use, because it sounds as though you are simply resigned to what ever happens, which is kind of what you do, only instead of total resignation, its total affirmation of life. "I willed it" as Nietzsche would say.

e.p. - I did not will this...trust me! Not sure what I think about that - will have to let it simmer some and get back with you.

Had another last night. In the bed - couldn't sleep - nothing felt right. Felt like I was going to crawl right out of my skin...wished I could have actually. Wanted to. Square breathing...I remembered that - 1-2-3-4 in - 1-2-3-4- out. It took about an hour and a Lortab (well...a couple) But I finally fell asleep and woke up pretty shiny this morning.

That is the first one I have had in a couple of days. Maybe they will just get fewer and farther between. I sure hope so.

How's mismi today?

Finding a good breathing technique is key, I find.

The first one I tried (part of a meditation program) made me seriously dizzy, so that wasn't useful

I finally learned a yoga breathing technique that helps me feel centred and calm, and able to sleep. I find that I end up breathing in about the same way as one of the sleeping dogs. This is the one I use. I usually use an 8 in/8 out count.

There are other yoga breathing techniques here. I find I don't like any of the noisy variants, the hissing etc.

and then there's Pilates breathing
http://pilates.about.com/od/pilateswarmupandprep/a/breathingEx.htm

I think it's worth trying a few to see which one 'feels' like you and works most effectively.

Sometimes listening to one of those cd's made for babies works - the rhythms are meant to help baby relax and sleep - can work for some adults as well. I think even Martha Stewart had a compilation of heartbeat rhythm music at some time in the 90's.

I would like to believe mis that ep means that its the way we view life and therefore, if we view it in a postive vein the that we can make sense of what happens and therefore follow on to accepting the nature of occurences, actions and consequences.

I hope that is what was meant. I do not know!

perhaps I am totally wrong. perhaps ep is living in a beautiful world and has a strong enough sense of self and acceptance of everything put before him/her. How nice that would feel. I would dearly love to be there.

i don't judge what he/she says - i don't know ep and have not interacted with ep before.

however, what i do know is your feelings, as are mine in the hell-hole 2 days i've found myself in, was not brought on through self harm or self willing. In an ideal world everything is beautiful. In an ideal work it could all be a changing work of art. I do not know Nietcsche - i will look that up in a minute - right now I am totally off the wall at anyone who can possibly imagine that what happens to me and mine is a work of art or is beautiful. Tomorrow I hope to be more level and more able to look positively on the events of my last two days.

Affirmation of life with what a child can go through....finding affirmation of that "appealing". jeez - i guess my "seriously frustrated and particularly disturbing childs life" in someones eyes may be appealing.... but sure as heck i won't be affirming the appealing nature of it.

Sorry mis - I know this is your thread. I know I have no right to jump in here. I apologise to you and the good folk on here.

But your feelings are real too. Please don't let anyone patronise or belittle how you feel and say in laymans terms "get on it with, everything is beautiful". That does not make you feel better.

There are many beautiful and wonderful things in the world, loyalty and friendship and love being some of the most important to me. We know that, we have that. nature and dewdrops, sunrises and sunsets et al.

there is also some very very real pain that people have to go through - pain where you powerless to make a difference and have to watch it happen.... pain where NOTHING, not one bit, not one drop of blood is in any way remotely appealing or beautiful.

I apologise in advance. This is not a good day. I should not post at this time of the nite.

Mis..... your feelings matter, they are very important. They should not be minimised. We, us, people in the world of reality as it is here and now, will hold your hand and help you figure out ways to work through your angst. You came here for reassurance.... let these people reassure you that in time, perspective will kick in. It will.

I'm so sorry to hijack this thread. The edge is pretty darn close right now.


Your feelings are yours, no-one elses.... you have many friends here to guide you. please listen to them - you know who they are - in fact, they are all your friends.... just some think differently than others.

I hope my probably sounding "meanness" is from a misinterpretation of what ep may have said. Willing this... I don't think so!!!!!

Willing the world to be a better place. Yes. Willing the problems to the fore. No.

Izzie - my dear friend - precious lady - you did not hijack my thread and if my life was all about me what a dreary life it would be. Though I do find myself to be a bit selfish and narcisistic at times - I am always reminded somehow how much better my life is when I am not the center of it. Seriously. Please feel free to come here and share your heart wherever I am - I love it.

I cannot and should not complain - I am not minimizing my problem. I just know I am coping with it. I do not think it is on the level that other people are dealing with. It is fairly short lived and I do not fear dying...sometimes wish I would just quit existing - though I would never consider suicide. And who would take care of my kids as well as I do? No - I am fine. The words here and the suggestions have helped - heck - just knowing someone else struggles with the same things I do is huge.

So please - never - ever - say you are sorry for sharing your heart with me.
hugs to you dear

edit to add: what you are dealing with is huge. I wish I could come and sit with you and help you sort through it all. Lord knows I do. Thinking and praying for you though. Please know that.

Alex - I am good. I feel a little prickly but other than that I'm just fine. Not looking forward to bedtime - that does seem to be when I struggle with my thoughts. Andy Griffith has been a cure as long as it is on...when it goes off - I get nervous. Sometimes I do good at turning off the thoughts that cause the panic...sometimes not so much.

I am going to try the Yoga breathing Beth...I think it makes sense and have heard of all kinds of breathing techniques since I have been here at A2K...Thanks

A good book to read is 'Stress without Distress" by Hans Selye. It helped me a great deal!

Thank you Synron - I will check it out.

Pssst... feather...

Quit sweatin' the big stuff, love the little stuff, and figgger out a breathing regimen that helps...

(mine is beethovens 5th, but it's REAL complicated...)

Go Bed, and count squirrels.-)

Rock

hey, mis.

deep, deep breaths. Whatever method works. Music, water, books, tv, going outside, staying inside, .... the list is long. Try them all, try whatever comes into your head, but do it s-l-o-w-l-y. Calm it down.... s-l-o-w-l-y

oxygen


s-l-o-w-l-y...




s-l-o-w-l-y

s-l-o-w-l-y



s-l-o-w-l-y



(missy)

Oh bother...

Just one more thought

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Zs7DDaNRMM&feature=related

Eeyore says hey


(chin up)

Patterns.

I posted the photo of the swimmers the other night. Sometimes if sleep is proving elusive, or thinking is overwhelming me, I think about swimming. I think about the pattern. I repeat it over and over.

Or I think about something I've been knitting and repeat the pattern. I can think about a sleeve with a fair isle pattern above the cuff right to sleep. Cast on 16 stitches. knit purl knit purl knit purl knit purl knit purl knit purl knit purl knit purl for 12 rows (I'm serious, I think all those stitches out in my head),. Increase a stitch at the beginning and end of each of the next four rows, knit between. 24 stitches on needle. Introduce second colour ...

The same thing could work with thinking out a quilting pattern ... or as I posted at one time, I played the double letter word game in my head as I was falling asleep.

It's a bit hypnotic - and hard to think about anything 'meaningful' if you're focusing on swimming or knitting ... you'll lose your spot.

Beth....that makes me want to learn to knit...I am gonna look into it.

Rock...oh my goodness...that is what I use to sing to my boys...I LOVE that song.

JPB...breathing - and am trying to be slow.

I do need to go to bed. The elbow needed Lortab...and I gave in and let it have it again....so ...fuzzy....should...lay ....down.... ; - )

Izzie:
“Mis..... your feelings matter, they are very important. They should not be minimised”.

You feelings do matter, I agree, however you should not allow yourself to be overwhelmed by your feelings. Being overwhelmed by your feelings and emotions is limiting, it does not allow you to do certain things, or think in a certain way. detaching oneself from your emotions sets you free in a way; I do not mean you should become an emotionless robot, but you should have self-control if you can do it.

Izzie: “I would like to believe mis that ep means that its the way we view life and therefore, if we view it in a postive vein the that we can make sense of what happens and therefore follow on to accepting the nature of occurences, actions and consequences”.

It is a way to view life, it could be described as carelessness, but not recklessness. One cares about oneself and ones friends and the world, but you do not allow it to consume you, you keep it all at a certain distance; this may sound very odd to some of you, this quote from “beyond good and evil” might make it slightly clearer.

“Bound heart, free spirit- If one binds one heart firmly and imprisons it one can allow one’s spirit many liberties: I have said that before. But no one believes it if he does not already know it”.

I understand how people can suffer, I have suffered in my mind and I am not suggesting that anyone would will themselves to suffer. Also, I am not simply saying “get on with it”, rather I am saying that some people “feel” more than others, and so if one was to get themselves too involved as it were with these feelings, one would not be able to cope, that is why I say distancing oneself is good, it allows one to survive as it were. I want to help people, but I find helping people over the internet is never an adequate way to do so; I would rather help people individually and face to face, take their subjectivity into account and work with that, but on a website that becomes difficult.
This is how I deal with the world and how I feel, if mismi lived next door to me then I would not be saying this, rather I would be working with mismi and using my understanding to assist the particular perspective; words on a page do not give enough to work with.

ep,

as someone who "feels" deeply, I think I understand the point you're trying to make.

Some things are inate, including many of the attributes that make up one's temperament. Yes, there are behavioral modification techniques that can be effective but there are also natural inclinations to react in a certain way.

No one wills themselves into a panic attack -- that's ludicrous. People are who they are and some have a naturally detached view, some have a naturally attached outlook, and lots and lots of folks live somewhere in the middle. Sometimes one's life view causes them to struggle. Do they need a different life view? I don't think so. Can they learn tools to live easier with the one they have? Sure, and many of the ideas offered here go a long way towards that end. There's no one right way that is the best answer for the one who is struggling, but I don't know that I agree with you that becoming more detached is the best one-size-fits-all answer either.

your right; some people find the idea of "detachment" weird and uncomfortable, and as I stated, that is how I deal with the world and my feelings. I terms of experiencing panic attacks, I am not entirely sure what to say; I have experienced panic attacks, the first time I had no idea what was happening. The second time I had one I stumbled upon a thread, which talked about Sartre’s book “nausea”, in which the main character experiences a number of different shifts in perception, which is apparently associated with panic attacks. I have not found anything saying that, that is what the person who posted the thread said.

As for feeling deeply, for me detachment is a very good way to deal with myself and the world, especially other people and how they feel.

“sometime’s one's life view causes them to struggle”

At that moment, one needs to seek out a way to either modify their view or change it; I have modified my perspective from what it used to be, and that had taken a long time. Like I said before I would not being saying any of these things if I was trying to help someone face to face, this I how I deal with it, and not how I would deal with other peoples perspective.

I see what you are saying ep - but I have to agree with JPB. I do not want to distance myself emotionally from things. I do believe the emotions - though exhausting and hard to deal with are certainly part of what makes us....human. The idea of distancing my emotions sounds almost robotish. If that's a word.

I think finding ways to control my thoughts and emotions - while staying in touch with them sounds more to my liking.