6
   

Should cons and/or ex cons be allowed to vote?

 
 
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 09:47 am
Quote:
After you go to prison " you do your time and they still take all your rights away,” Mr. Benton said as he filled out a form to register. “You can’t get a job. You can’t vote. You can’t do nothing even 10 or 20 years later. You don’t feel like a citizen. You don’t even feel human.”

Felony disenfranchisement " often a holdover from exclusionary Jim Crow-era laws like poll taxes and ballot box literacy tests " affects about 5.3 million former and current felons in the United States, according to voting rights groups. But voter registration and advocacy groups say that recent overhauls of these Reconstruction-era laws have loosened enough in some states to make it worth the time to lobby statehouses for more liberal voting restoration processes, and to try to track down former felons in indigent neighborhoods


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14felony.html?hp

in my view the answer is no. Along with rights are responsibilities, and I don't think that the irresponsible should have an unfettered right to vote.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 6 • Views: 5,164 • Replies: 59

 
shewolfnm
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 10:06 am
@hawkeye10,
wow.

so no matter what the persons charge was they shouldnt vote huh?
You know that having a felony is mostly about fine amounts right?
That even if you have parking permits that are not paid, if they TOTAL a certain amount that you can no longer hold a misdemeanor by default and it can be classified as a felony?

so, if people have large fines, and have not hurt anyone in the process... your telling me they should not be able to vote?

Do you know that these same people can not RENT from most companies?
That they can not even get a JOB.

yet, you still feel as though they should remain punished.. no matter their charges?
Are you , just like every other non thinking person, lumping the word and the outline of 'felony' with all child rapists, murderers and major thieves?
just because one has a felony, does not make them a danger to society. Sorry. Not all felons are "dangerous", not all have earned that chrage because of the NATURE of their crime, just the state imposed fine amount.



shewolfnm
 
  3  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 10:07 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:


in my view the answer is no. Along with rights are responsibilities, and I don't think that the irresponsible should have an unfettered right to vote.


irresponsible people who hurt others vote all the time.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  4  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 10:09 am
@hawkeye10,
I agree that prisoners should not be allowed to vote, however ex-convicts
have redeemed themselves, they had gotten their punishment and sentence,
once they're out of prison, they have a right to be rehabilitated thus should
be allowed to vote as well.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 10:16 am
@shewolfnm,
I certainly believe that ex cons are not allowed the proper opportunity to earn a living and have a life after they have paid their debt to society, however to me this is a separate issue from the right to vote. If a person can not vote they have not been allowed to influence social choices, but their individual life has not been harmed. And not all ex cons should have their right to vote removed, it should be for major crimes only.
shewolfnm
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 10:18 am
In the state of texas, one with a felony can be legally discriminated against when it comes to-
employment. companies CAN and DO by pass you due to your background
renting- people do not have to legally rent to you and you can not take them to court for it
credit - small local companies, car companies for example, can deny you credit based on your record

You can not ( and this is a simple, short stupid list)
you can not have- a coin operated machine, a bingo hall or MEMBERSHIP to a bingo company.
You can not be - a designated inheritance on someones will. Hmm.. Im not writing that correctly.. but you can not gain from someones will, nor can you be the executor of said will
You are not allowed to BE- with in a few hundred yards of another felon.
This law is admittedly stupid and not enforced except under odd ball circumstances and is also a law from many years ago.

but, that is a super short, simple list.
People who say felons need to be punished even more have no idea what they go through in the first place . Talk about being out for blood.

I agree, there are some felons who NEED to be watched by society. They NEED to be restricted so that they have to spend most of their lives working to live and dont have a lot of idle time to re-offend.
These would be you rapists, child rapists, murderers, etc...
But to be foolish enough to lump them all together ( felons) blows my mind.
shewolfnm
 
  0  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 10:20 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

I certainly believe that ex cons are not allowed the proper opportunity to earn a living and have a life after they have paid their debt to society, however to me this is a separate issue from the right to vote. If a person can not vote they have not been allowed to influence social choices, but their individual life has not been harmed. And not all ex cons should have their right to vote removed, it should be for major crimes only.


Ak. Im sorry. I was writing another response as you were typing this.
I agree to a certain extent. And our posts will overlap yet again because you will see what I wrote first.

I agree, if you are irresponsible enough to be charged with a large crime , you more then likely should not be allowed to make those kinds of decisions.
But to press on more punishment beyond that.. I dont agree with.
0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 10:21 am
and this is a topic I am quite passionate about Wink

i work with some small rehab places pushing petitions and writing letters to help revoke some of the more.. useless rules against felons.

Like the coin operated machine one.. (insert rolling eyes ere)
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 11:08 am
I know someone that got caught up in cocain. She was charged and served 2 years plus a year of probation for accepting a small amount of cocain from an under cover officer who paid her $30 to deliver it to another under cover officer.

In addition to her time, she lost her daughter. Two years later, she cannot get a job or rent, be within xx distance of anyone with a gun, (rolling eyes) or get anything but substandard vehicle insurance.

She has removed herself from the prviusly self distructive environment.

In NC she CAN vote and I have supplied her the paperwork to register and do so.
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 11:13 am
@squinney,
squinney wrote:

In NC she CAN vote and I have supplied her the paperwork to register and do so.


Good for you, squinney. How do we expect ex-prisoners to get back on track
if we don't have any reintegration into society laid out for them, and prevent
them from starting again where they have left off.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 11:30 am
@CalamityJane,
CalamityJane wrote:

I agree that prisoners should not be allowed to vote, however ex-convicts
have redeemed themselves, they had gotten their punishment and sentence,
once they're out of prison, they have a right to be rehabilitated thus should
be allowed to vote as well.

This.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 11:37 am
@hawkeye10,
Excepting aliens and the illiterate,
every person who is subject to the law,
who is required to comply with the law,
is morally entitled to vote. This includes any person of any age.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 11:43 am
@squinney,
Quote:
I know someone that got caught up in cocain. She was charged and served 2 years plus a year of probation for accepting a small amount of cocain from an under cover officer who paid her $30 to deliver it to another under cover officer.

In addition to her time, she lost her daughter. Two years later, she cannot get a job or rent, be within xx distance of anyone with a gun, (rolling eyes) or get anything but substandard vehicle insurance.

She has removed herself from the prviusly self distructive environment.

In NC she CAN vote and I have supplied her the paperwork to register and do so.

1 ) Anti-drug laws shoud be repealed

2 ) Police who entice crime
shoud be prosecuted for criminal solicitation
and upon conviction, shoud be incarcerated.





David
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 11:50 am
Coming from a a country with a different legal system as well as from one where the denial of the right to vote is an additional penalty that the court can choose to impose - I certainly think that ex-prisoners have the suffrage.

I know, however, that "the right to vote" (to all adults), without distinction as to race, sex, belief, intelligence, or economic or social status ... that this "universal suffrage" is denied to some people or groups of persons for various reasons in some countries. (Personally, I would like that non-citizen residents here could vote not only in local and regional elections but in the federal elections as well.)

0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  4  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 12:03 pm
I was charged with felony drug violations in 1970. Took a powder..got the FBI after me.... and finally turned myself in, spent a **** load of money with a hotshot attorney and got everything reduced to a misdemeanor....spent more money and got the entire mess expunged from my record a few years later. Had I not, I would be unable to vote, fly a plane, be an on air disc jockey, OR GET A LICENSE TO BE A BARBER because 38 years ago some deputy dawgs found some pot in my house. If you can't vote then don't bullshit me with this you've paid your debt to society nonsense.
squinney
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 12:15 pm
@Bi-Polar Bear,
Did you really want to be a barber?
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 12:16 pm
@squinney,
well i do enjoy regular trim...
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  4  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 12:22 pm
@CalamityJane,
CalamityJane wrote:

I agree that prisoners should not be allowed to vote, however ex-convicts
have redeemed themselves, they had gotten their punishment and sentence,
once they're out of prison, they have a right to be rehabilitated thus should
be allowed to vote as well.


I'd agree with this with a slight modification. I'd restore the right to vote upon completion of any probation period that comes after the prison release.
squinney
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 12:25 pm
@fishin,
Agreed. From the womans experience that I posted above, those that have done their time and shown that they are not a threat to themselves or society, will follow the laws... they are the ones intimately familiar with the system for which we vote.
fishin
 
  4  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2008 12:35 pm
@shewolfnm,
shewolfnm wrote:

You can not be - a designated inheritance on someones will. Hmm.. Im not writing that correctly.. but you can not gain from someones will, nor can you be the executor of said will



I don't know where you got this list from but this statement isn't accurate. The concept of automatically deeming someone unworthy of inheritance due to criminal offenses is known as "corruption of the blood" and it is specifically prohibited under Texas Probate Code § 41(d). There is one exception to that prohibition - you can be denied an inheritance if you caused the person's death. i.e. if you kill your parent(s) you can be denied any inheritance from their estate.
 

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