31
   

How will we pay for it all?

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2008 10:23 pm
@FreeDuck,
If you are a Obama supporter than you have utterly rejected your prior Libertarian leanings.

If you are looking for competence, then how can you imagine Obama provides it?

By any standard, Obama is a candidate of inspiration, not competence.

FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2008 10:30 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

If you are a Obama supporter than you have utterly rejected your prior Libertarian leanings.

Probably. In all but principle.

Quote:
If you are looking for competence, then how can you imagine Obama provides it?


He is clearly good at what he does. He has a record of good, smart legislation as a lawmaker. I know you have your talking points about what percentage of the time he voted with his party and he never reached across the aisle, etc... But I have been watching him for a while and have read stuff about him before he was running for president that are impressive and less tainted by campaign noise. Im tired now, but I would be happy to dig up the links if you are interested.

Quote:
By any standard, Obama is a candidate of inspiration, not competence.


I disagree. Pick a standard and lets discuss.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 02:30 pm
Quote:
Finn wrote: By any standard, Obama is a candidate of inspiration, not competence.


Okay, tell us exactly how Obama is all inspiration with no competence? Please list his involvement with his educational background, nonprofits, the Illinois senate, and any others you can find to defend your ridiculous charge.
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 03:38 pm
@cicerone imposter,
yo, ci.

i noticed that you posted your question at 8:30 this am. it's 2:36 now (we're both on pst) and no response. Mr. Green
FreeDuck
 
  3  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 03:39 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
I dont think Finn is around much. He appears to have more of a life than the rest of us. Wink
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 05:06 pm
@FreeDuck,
Just, maybe, he's out researching something he will never find. LOL
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  3  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 05:15 pm
@FreeDuck,
FreeDuck wrote:

My question is for folks who always oppose raising taxes. I'll admit I don't like paying a lot of taxes either. But who is going to pay for our wars, our aging infrastructure, our social security promises? Do you think it is ok to pass this burden on to our children, grandchildren and, at this rate, great-grandchildren? Help me understand.

The other side of the coin is legislators who raise taxes without trying to be frugal with the money because they can - legislators who don't have a heck of a lot of respect for the idea that when they take away someone else's money, they shouldn't then fritter it away.
old europe
 
  3  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 05:18 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:
legislators who don't have a heck of a lot of respect for the idea that when they take away someone else's money, they shouldn't then fritter it away.


Why do you hate the Bush administration? They're only trying to win the War On Terror...
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 06:13 pm
@old europe,
don't be silly o.e. we borrow the money for the war on tirrur from the communist chinese.

FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 06:17 pm
@Brandon9000,
This is true.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 06:47 pm
@old europe,
Quote:
Why do you hate the Bush administration? They're only trying to win the War On Terror...


and secretary rice has just visited colonel MUMAMMAR GADAFFI of lybia !

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2008/09/06/alg_condi-rice.jpg

(even though U.S. president Reagan himself once dubbed Gaddafi the "mad dog of the Middle East." )
peace brothers and sisters ! > GRIN
hbg
DontTreadOnMe
 
  3  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 09:03 pm
@hamburger,
strange as it sounds, i like the idea that the bush admin has finally come around to the idea of talking to some of the un-cool leaders in the world.

it doesn't mean you have to like them, but it's often helpful to know what they're thinking.

did ya notice gadaffi is starting to look like red fox ?
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 09:07 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
And while we spend those billions in Iraq, the Chinese are buying America. Good trade, don't you think?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 09:11 pm
not sure where this should go
Quote:
Judge OKs bankruptcy filing for Vallejo, Calif.



By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: September 5, 2008
Filed at 10:28 p.m. ET

VALLEJO, Calif. (AP) -- A federal judge ruled Friday that the city of Vallejo could push forward with its bankruptcy case, rejecting a legal challenge by police and firefighters unions.

U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Michael McManus in Sacramento said Vallejo met the legal requirements of Chapter 9 bankruptcy protection. He rejected the unions' arguments that the city's finances weren't as bad as officials claimed.

The San Francisco Bay area suburb of 120,000 became the largest California city to file for bankruptcy in May, citing shrinking revenue and escalating labor costs for police and firefighters.

Vallejo faces a $16 million budget deficit after seeing revenue decline amid an economic downturn and deepening housing market crisis. The city has been forced to reduce staff and cut services to deal with its chronic budget problems.

The judge will next decide whether the city can renegotiate labor contracts with the public safety unions. Compensation for firefighters and police officers now make up 75 percent of Vallejo's $87 million general fund budget, a much larger portion than most California cities.

Vallejo's case is being watched closely by other cities and counties that are saddled with employment contracts they can't afford.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Vallejo-Budget-Crisis.html

If Bankruptcy laws will allow government to use them to get out of obligations we are in for a world of hurt boys and girls.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 11:51 pm
Quote:
Silver State Bank in Nevada is shut



By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: September 6, 2008
Filed at 1:29 a.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Regulators on Friday shut down Silver State Bank, saying the Nevada bank failed because of losses on soured loans, mainly in commercial real estate and land development.

It was the 11th failure this year of a federally insured bank.

Nevada regulators closed Silver State and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. was appointed receiver of the bank, based in Henderson, Nev. It had $2 billion in assets and $1.7 billion in deposits as of June 30.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/business/AP-Bank-Closure-Silver-State.html
0 Replies
 
Runamuck
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Sep, 2008 08:35 am
@hawkeye10,
We cant pay for it is the short answer.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  2  
Reply Sat 6 Sep, 2008 12:31 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
Quote:
Re: hamburger(Post 3390527)
strange as it sounds, i like the idea that the bush admin has finally come around to the idea of talking to some of the un-cool leaders in the world.

it doesn't mean you have to like them, but it's often helpful to know what they're thinking.

did ya notice gadaffi is starting to look like red fox ?


is sure agree with you dtom .
imo good diplomacy can achieve more - with less loss of life - than a badly planned and executed war .
i guess politicians sometimes have to do some "sabre rattling" to frighten the ordinary citizens and convince them that they are the ones that will "stand up against tyranny " (as long as it is convenient > GRIN ) .

just taking a quick look at cuba , i wonder when some politician will come along and find it useful to deal with cuba on a peaceful basis (but what's left for sabre-rattling then ? ) .
i understand that the U.S. agricultare associations have for some time pushed to be allowed to sell to cuba - not enough clout , i imagine .
hbg


cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sat 6 Sep, 2008 01:17 pm
@hamburger,
The trade embargo against Cuba has always been a stupid one, but look at how many presidents just followed along that only hurt the average Cuban.

Is Fidel still alive?
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Sep, 2008 01:42 pm
@cicerone imposter,
my previous post was incorrect : some trade with /export to cuba is now allowed !

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/12/world/americas/12cuba.html

a/t this article , it is the AMERICAN farmer that is being hurt by the trade restrictions :



Quote:
November 12, 2007
For U.S. Exporters in Cuba, Business Trumps Politics
By JAMES C. McKINLEY Jr.
HAVANA, Nov. 11 " A trade fair in Communist Cuba is perhaps the last place you would expect to find a Republican governor from the American heartland. Yet last week, Gov. Dave Heineman of Nebraska was here to sign a deal to export $11 million worth of his state’s wheat to the island.

Asked the obvious question about whether longstanding American trade sanctions should be lifted, Governor Heineman ducked and weaved like a professional boxer. “Well, I try not to get into that, because that’s up to the president and the Congress, but I will say expanding trade relationships is good for Nebraska and altogether good for America,” he said.
Just weeks after President Bush delivered an address calling on the world to isolate Cuba, officials from Minnesota, Alabama and Ohio " and more than 100 American businesses " were working the giant Havana International Fair, trying to secure part of the $1.6 billion the Cuban government spends each year to import sugar, wheat, livestock, poultry and beans, among other staples.

Those business interests clash with the Bush administration’s anti-Castro policies, as well as the need of both Democrats and Republicans to court Cuban exiles in Florida, a crucial voting bloc. So while some trade with Cuba is allowed, it is fraught with restrictions. A 1992 law, for instance, denies ships access to American ports for six months after they have docked in Cuba, making shipping tricky, to say the least.

Several Americans here said they were frustrated that the sanctions have proved more a source of irritation for those who want to do business with Cuba than a crippling blow to Fidel Castro.

“They are doing everything they can to make it difficult,” said Ralph Kaehler, a Minnesota farmer who sells cattle feed in Cuba. “It’s unfortunate.”

American businesspeople and state officials have been coming to the fair for six years, ever since Congress gave in to pressure from the agriculture lobby in late 2000, during the waning days of the Clinton administration, and lifted a four-decade ban on selling food to Cuba.

Since then, the number of farm states and agribusinesses who want a piece of the Cuban market has been growing, despite the Bush administration’s steady tightening of sanctions. For farm states, the need for jobs has trumped cold-war politics.

“It’s helped our economy,” said Ron Sparks, the Alabama agriculture commissioner, as he talked with people near the booth for the Mobile Port Authority. “It’s helped our farmers. I don’t talk national policy.”

Now in its 25th year, the annual trade fair drew more than 1,000 companies from 53 countries to a sprawling fairground known as Expocuba just outside Havana.

The atmosphere was festive, with more than a dozen restaurants where people drank Havana Club rum and puffed on Cuba’s famous cigars, a treat several Americans appeared to enjoy. The five-day fair, which ended Saturday, also attracted hundreds of ordinary Cubans.

Aside from state officials, the American delegation included several shipping companies and large agricultural outfits like Pilgrim’s Pride, Cargill and Purdue. Their sales representatives worked in the booths all day before returning to the Hotel Nacional, an art deco landmark, and then heading out to enjoy the Havana night life.

Some Americans at the fair predicted that Cuba’s market would open up more after Fidel Castro gave up power permanently, and they said they wanted to get a head start on deal making. Many envision a return to the prerevolution days when the United States was Cuba’s biggest trading partner, as wheat and durable goods flowed south while sugar, tobacco and rum flowed north.

But financial and travel restrictions have never been tighter, as the Bush administration has quietly stepped up the prohibition of tourism to and from Cuba and invented new ways to squeeze the island financially. It has also increased efforts to fine international banks that handle transactions in dollars for the Cuban government as well as companies that do business in both Cuba and the United States.

American farmers complain that Washington has also tried to find ways to hinder agricultural sales to the island. Since the ban was lifted in 2000, an exception to the general trade embargo against Cuba, sales from American farmers to the island have risen to about $500 million a year, Cuban officials say.

But the Bush administration has required the purchases to be made in cash and, since 2004, that the payment must be received before shipment. The system has created immense logistical headaches for American shippers and food exporters. Loads of grain and poultry end up waiting for days on a dock until proof of payment arrives, shippers said.

“There are lot of delays in loading because of that,” said Eric T. Junker, the owner of Americana Marine Services, which ships grain to the island.

President Bush and other supporters of the sanctions maintain that every dollar that enters Cuba helps support a despotic regime. In his speech on Oct. 24, Mr. Bush asked Congress to maintain the embargo and said the transfer of power from Fidel Castro, who has been ill, to his brother Raúl, amounted to “exchanging one dictator for another.” He called for elections after Fidel Castro’s death.

Cuban officials argue the embargo hurts American farmers more than it does the government here. But they also acknowledge the American attempts to punish foreign companies for doing business here have hurt them in dozens of small ways, from limiting their ability to buy to certain medicines to making it impossible to get spare parts for scientific equipment.

“The blockade makes doing business here insecure,” said Pedro Álvarez Borrego, the chairman of Alimport, the government-owned company that imports food.

The biggest blow, however, has been to tourism. The minister for tourism, Manuel Madero, said that before Mr. Bush took office, about 80,000 Americans visited Cuba every year, usually going through Mexico or another country. He declined to give a number for the current year, but said it had been reduced to trickle.

Luis M. Morejón, who operates a small tour company, said he used to arrange tours for at least 30 Americans a year in the late 1990s. “Now this whole year I haven’t had one,” he said.





John Parke Wright, a Florida cattle farmer, rode with a Cuban farmer, one of the diversions for visitors to the trade fair in Havana last week.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/11/12/world/12cuba.xlarge1.jpg
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Sep, 2008 01:44 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
DontTreadOnMe wrote:

did ya notice gadaffi is starting to look like red fox ?

Laughing I missed this the first time. He does!

Now I have that song stuck in my head.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
GAFFNEY: Whose side is Obama on? - Discussion by gungasnake
 
Copyright © 2022 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 07/04/2022 at 10:22:46