14
   

So....Will Biden Be VP?

 
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 11:12 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

OCCOM BILL wrote:
I'll be happy to Okie, just as soon as you provide a link to where I called you a racist or a bigot in the first place. I don't recall directly accusing you of either, wouldn't have done so without due cause, and won't be doing your homework for you.

Thats your homework, Bill. I remember it, and I think you do to. I have better things to do than to look up old arguments, and if you don't feel like looking it up, then you know what you think now, don't you? In your opinion, state your case, if you have one, and if you don't, then I request you also acknowledge it and quit the tripe.
:lol:WTF are you talking about? You are claiming that I called you a racist or bigot directly. The burden to prove this is yours alone. I recall making no such claim (and certainly won't be searching for something I don't believe exists.) You should realize how utterly idiotic it is to attempt to shift that burden onto me.
OCCOM BILL
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 11:16 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

Try admitting that racists will also vote for Obama, Bill.
So stipulated... but that has no effect on any argument I've presented.

okie wrote:
And whites will vote for Obama because he is considered black, because they want to elect a minority. Hillary's supporters wanted a woman president. Thats a fact too. Does that make them bigoted?
I wouldn't describe that as bigoted... but it doesn't matter to me if you do because this too is irrelevant in regards to any argument I've presented.

(Throwing stuff at the wall, won’t confuse the issue)
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  3  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 11:16 am
@OCCOM BILL,
Okay, blithely wipe it out of your memory. I remember it stuck in my craw at the time, and I called you on it, and we had a back and forth about it. I don't find it particularly appropriate to go back and dredge it up here, if you have no recollection, that is convenient for you isn't it? Anyway, you called me an idiot and a moron a few times the last few pages, which is another common practice out of your playbook, I suppose you will forget that too.
OCCOM BILL
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 11:29 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

Okay, blithely wipe it out of your memory. I remember it stuck in my craw at the time, and I called you on it, and we had a back and forth about it. I don't find it particularly appropriate to go back and dredge it up here, if you have no recollection, that is convenient for you isn't it?
I suspect you recall stepping in in defense of someone I have called a bigot or moron, and perhaps felt like you got splashed with it after volunteering to be counted with the scumbag. Perhaps you'd have been better served to mind your own business. None of which makes a lick of difference to me. Unless you can quote where I directly called you a bigot or a racist; this conversation is utterly pointless.

okie wrote:
Anyway, you called me an idiot and a moron a few times the last few pages, which is another common practice out of your playbook, I suppose you will forget that too.
On the contrary; this I recall vividly, and haven't changed my opinion one iota. It is only a common practice out of my playbook when I'm conversing with an idiot or moron... just as I only call bigots and racists bigots and racists. Your blatant, patently absurd, attempt at burden-shifting here should serve as ample evidence to the charges that I have thrown your way. Wink
Lash
 
  5  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 11:41 am
@sozobe,
Re: bumps. The polling is in hyperdrive to test any movement due to Biden. Of course, I suppose an additonal day's wait would be prudent... Sometimes, the general polled public is a bit slow to attach events to their answers...but I'm imagining the question would be forthright: Does the Biden selection change your vote? Seems like that would show up sooner than hazier questions or events...
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 11:48 am
@Lash,
Well, I think almost nobody will say that it would change their vote; but that's a factor of the polarization of our country as much as it is anything having to do with Biden.

Cycloptichorn
Lash
 
  4  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 11:52 am
@Cycloptichorn,
I think it may have changed some---who were on the fence, worried about O's foreign policy deficit....I can imagine some other scenarios--people who routinely wait to decide--seeing the second name on the ticket....begrudging Hillary supporters, who like Biden...etc, etc GOPers who don't like McC, but couldn't vote for O without an across the aisle guy like Biden on the ticket...

That's why common knowledge expects a bump....and it would be telling if there's not one.
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 11:55 am
@Lash,
Yup. It's going to be difficult to separate the convention bump from the biden bump, tho...

I think McCain has a real problem with his VP choice now. I think it's a much bigger deal for him then Obama.

Cycloptichorn
Ramafuchs
 
  -4  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 12:00 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Don't get mislead by your leaders.
Your system needs a radical change and not the one which distracts your attention.
All the best
Rama
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 12:11 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
You're definitely right, cyclops, about bump timing----and I can't think of anything good McC can achieve with his pick, unless he does something astonishing...like goes across the aisle ...or dusts off some relic loaded with gravitas, who I can't even imagine....or bags Condi or something... I don't foresee anything good.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 12:25 pm
@Lash,
Once again, not much of a bump in the polls for Obama.

He appears to have a problem closing the sale.
sozobe
 
  3  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 12:34 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

Re: bumps. The polling is in hyperdrive to test any movement due to Biden. Of course, I suppose an additonal day's wait would be prudent... Sometimes, the general polled public is a bit slow to attach events to their answers...but I'm imagining the question would be forthright: Does the Biden selection change your vote? Seems like that would show up sooner than hazier questions or events...


Hazier... like the Iowa win?

Same idea. "Does the Iowa win change your vote?"

It just takes a while to percolate. Some people don't get the news itself right away. Some people are dependent on spinmeisters to clarify what they think. Some people learn more about implications of it ("Iowa means that Obama can win the white vote which is significant," "Iowa indicates that the Obama campaign is better organized than Hillary's) (or, "Biden is an especially good debater," "Biden is from Pennsylvania and still has strong working-class ties there") and that's what influences their decision.

Again, we're political junkies -- a whole lot of people out there, when initially asked their opinion of Biden as VP, are likely to say "who?" They're going to learn a lot more about him as the coverage of him percolates and as the Dem conventions get started.

The bump-delay was a surprise to me, too, when I first learned about it, but since then I've seen it over and over again. Robert referred to this, too. ("No European trip bump! Hah!" <a bit later> "Oh, there it is. Oops.")
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 12:35 pm
@Lash,
I guess I should point out that Obama is at the highest he's been in the Ras poll in the last month since the announcement, but before the convention started - though that's still only 4 points ahead, it represents a small improvement.

Cycloptichorn
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 12:39 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
If you believe the hype the liberal media is pushing Obama should
currently be far ahead of McCain in all polls, but he is not... why Question

0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 12:56 pm
@H2O MAN,
Could be a bump down, once the the reality of Biden sinks in, possible corruption, etc. Hunter Biden, lobbyist, etc. Rush is talking about it. Follow the money.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 12:57 pm
@okie,
Okie, honestly. If you believe the crap Rush spews, you're a moron.

Cycloptichorn
OCCOM BILL
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 01:06 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Okie, honestly. If you believe the crap Rush spews, you're a moron.

Cycloptichorn
Idea
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 01:13 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Attack the messenger, yes, thats the way to go, cyclops, just as Bill does. Perhaps you would like to examine the problems with Hunter Biden, take Rush out of it. And if Rush and others didn't report it, it would go unreported, and you guys would still be comfortable with your heads in the sand.

Address the issue, guys, and the issue is Biden, not Rush, Rush only reports whats out there, just as other people do. If it isn't true, provide the evidence. I think there may be a problem, but I will continue to look into it, even if you guys don't care. Of course, you want to ignore anything negative. I'm sure you wouldn't if it was McCains son being a lobbyist, and McCain was carrying water for bills to benefit his son and his interest. Because you guys are hopelessly partisan. Clinton could have robbed a bank, and you wouldn't have cared. Same story now, different people.
okie
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 01:18 pm
@okie,
Try the New York Times, guys, if you don't like Rush.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/25/us/politics/25biden.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&em&adxnnlx=1219672948-c9enm6xziwAkF0YG/tfM%20w

"During the years that Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. was helping the credit card industry win passage of a law making it harder for consumers to file for bankruptcy protection, his son had a consulting agreement that lasted five years with one of the largest companies pushing for the changes, aides to Senator Barack Obama’s presidential campaign acknowledged Sunday."

I think its worth following up on, perhaps you guys don't.

I just had a thought, I wonder if Hillary has moles in the Obama campaign that convinced him to pick Biden? Sort of joking, but sort of an intriguing thought? Hmmmmm......

georgeob1
 
  3  
Reply Mon 25 Aug, 2008 01:21 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
OCCOM BILL -

I think that we (perhaps okie too) have gotten stuck on some significant, but in the larger scheme of things, small points with more emotional than intellectual or practical import. Racism has indeed been one of the stains of American history, and it remains an imperfectly, and as yet inadequately, solved problem for us. To a large extent we have reached the point where more than anything we simply need the passage of time to let processes already underway have their beneficial effects, and in some areas let old ways of thinking, speaking and acting pass from the scene with the generations whose experiences created them. However, it is also true that this country is more likely to meaningfully deal with and solve this problem than any other, and in many ways the Obama campaign illustrates the point and the attendant process - a point to which I am sensitive. I suspect we would all agree (or at least come close to it) on these points.

With all this in mind perhaps we can focus more on areas where we agree.

 

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