1
   

Obama fumbles at Faith Forum

 
 
mysteryman
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 07:34 am
@Not a Soccer Mom,
Yes, I watched the forum.
To me, that is saying that Thomas didnt have enough experience.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 09:48 am
McCain says he want to "win in Iraq" before he brings the troops home, but he hasn't defined what "win" means. Does anybody know what he means?
****************

McCain: Win war in Iraq first, then bring troops home

By David, Jackson, USA TODAY
ORLANDO " John McCain told the nation's largest veterans group Monday that both he and Barack Obama want to bring U.S. troops home from Iraq, but "the great difference is that I intend to win it first."
McCain assailed Obama, the presumptive Democratic nominee, for saying he still would have opposed the 2007 U.S. troop build-up in Iraq.

"Even in retrospect, he would choose the path of retreat and failure for America over the path of success and victory," McCain said.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 10:21 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Does anybody know what he means?


Winning means the opposite of what cut-n-run means.
http://777denny.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/cut-n-run-democrat-party.jpg
FreeDuck
 
  3  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 10:23 am
@H2O MAN,
Paste and Walk?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 10:25 am
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:
Interesting; I think if anyone took the time to print out the entire "interviews" of McCain/Obama with each question followed by each answer and compared them side by side one would find that McCain did not answer many questions or did them with anecdotes nonresponsive to the actual question while Obama actually attempted to give complete and comprehensive answers. The biggest failure of Obama's was his answering to the questions rather than to the audience while Mccain answered to "my friends" the audience. Obama must learn to play the audience as well as answer the questions.
Very interesting and perceptive comment, dys. However politics is all about people. A candidate more interested in the abstract elements of a question than the likely motives and interests of his questioner, is not likely to succeed over time in a democratic system. He may make a good pedagogue, or even a good writer or historian, but is not likely to meet the leadership demands of a democratic system.

I also think you are overstating the difference a bit: Obama did indeed play to the audience on several occasions, and McCain did forthrightly and directly answer most of the questions put to him.
revel
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 12:32 pm
@H2O MAN,
Better than the republican answer of stay and pay even if it means we go broke and leave ourselves at risk for any other crises we may have.

Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 01:02 pm
@Not a Soccer Mom,
NOSM said:
Quote:
Re: mysteryman (Post 3362973)
Did you (or the blogger you quote) watch the same forum?

Here is what Obama said:

Quote:
"I would not have nominated Clarence Thomas," Obama said in response to a question about which justice he would not have appointed. "I don't think that he was a strong enough jurist or legal thinker at the time for that elevation."

If you are going to make claims about something Obama allegedly said, please include a direct quote in the future.


What Obama said if you literally transcribe what he said about Clarence Thomas, not from a cleaned up transcript, but from the actual clip:
"I would not have nominated ah Clarence Thomas. Ah I don’t think that he ah .. ah .. ah I .. I … I don’t think that he was an exp … ah, a strong enough jurist or legal thinker … "

He almost said "I don't think that he was an experienced. . ." but he caught himself. Looped in an ad, the intent would be pretty obvious.

The clip here:
http://beltwayblips.com/video/barack_obama_on_clarence_thomas/

0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 01:06 pm
@revel,

Better to finish what has been started that to quit and run away.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 01:51 pm
@H2O MAN,
What you are talking about is stubbornness; there are times in life when we must decide whether the cost exceeds the benefits. It doesn't matter whether we started it or not; we must know when to end it when the problems exceeds our ability to "fix it."
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 02:03 pm
@cicerone imposter,
No.
What I am talking about is commitment; we must stand and finish what we started.
It does matter that we started it and it does matter that we stay and finish it.
This liberal trend toward quitting when the going get's tough must end or we are doomed.
0 Replies
 
slkshock7
 
  3  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 04:37 pm
Well, both Obama and McCain were not exactly truthful with claims they made at the forum. I think the factcheck summary below is also misleading though, at least with respect to McCain's error. FactCheck rightfully caught McCain in a "misspeak", but his plan does include a gradual increase ($500 per year until 2016) in the tax exemption to $7000 per child. And I have no earthly idea how they figure that, because its a tax exemption, it somehow benefits the high-bracket taxpayers the most. I would think it would benefit those with most children the most without regard for income.


factcheck.org wrote:
At a nationally televised forum at a mega-church in Southern California, we found these misrepresentations:
Obama claimed that "I worked with John McCain" on ethics legislation. In fact, the two worked together for barely a week, after which McCain accused Obama of "partisan posturing" and added, "I won't make the same mistake again." McCain later voted against the ethics bill that Obama supported, stating that it was written by Democrats with "no input" from Republicans.

Obama wrongly claimed that abortions "have not gone down" under President Bush. In fact, the abortion rate has gone down 9 percent, and the annual total has declined by more than 100,000.


McCain exaggerated the extent of his proposals to cut taxes. He incorrectly claimed he would give a "tax credit" of $7,000 per child, which would be seven times as high as the current credit. His actual proposal would gradually increase the current $3,500 exemption, which benefits high-bracket taxpayers most.


source

0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 05:53 pm
@georgeob1,
it's so nice to dialogue with someone who actually responds to what I wrote instead of "eat **** and die" wingnut assholyness.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  3  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 08:01 am
@H2O MAN,
At what point will it ever be called finished? We went in there supossedly to stop the threat of an evil dicator using weapons of mass destruction on Americans and to remove said dicator. Saddam is dead and there are no weapons of mass destruction. That is what we started and it is finished. According to ya'll even the surge is a success. Everything else is just staying and paying because your side and Bush is just stubborn.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 08:31 am
@revel,
It is far from finished.
Our enemies are stubbornly determined to kill Americans and to destroy our way of life.


Maybe your side and Obama want our enemies to win...
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 08:37 am
@H2O MAN,
Yea and those enemies are in other places besides Iraq, even most of AQ has left join places like Afganistan and Pakistan. You remember the war in Afganistan don't you? A place we invaded because the Taliban refused to give up Bin Laden? A fight we did leave before it was finished but I don't hear squat about that from your side.

Maybe your side and McCain wants Bin Laden and the real AQ to win.

0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  3  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 08:48 am
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
It is far from finished.
Our enemies are stubbornly determined to kill Americans and to destroy our way of life.


Maybe your side and Obama want our enemies to win...


This strawman is SOOO 2004. It's gone out of style. Your use of it exposes you as a plaid-bellbottom-wearing, platform-shoe-clad monkey.
H2O MAN
 
  -4  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 10:51 am
@FreeDuck,
you have chosen to side with Obama and let our enemies to win - shame on you.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 11:11 am
Quote:
Commentary: Is McCain another George W. Bush?

By Jack Cafferty
CNN

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Russia invades Georgia and President Bush goes on vacation. Our president has spent one-third of his entire two terms in office either at Camp David, Maryland, or at Crawford, Texas, on vacation.

His time away from the Oval Office included the month leading up to 9/11, when there were signs Osama bin Laden was planning to attack America, and the time Hurricane Katrina destroyed the city of New Orleans.

Sen. John McCain takes weekends off and limits his campaign events to one a day. He made an exception for the religious forum on Saturday at Saddleback Church in Southern California.

I think he made a big mistake. When he was invited last spring to attend a discussion of the role of faith in his life with Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, at Messiah College in Pennsylvania, McCain didn't bother to show up. Now I know why.

It occurs to me that John McCain is as intellectually shallow as our current president. When asked what his Christian faith means to him, his answer was a one-liner. "It means I'm saved and forgiven." Great scholars have wrestled with the meaning of faith for centuries. McCain then retold a story we've all heard a hundred times about a guard in Vietnam drawing a cross in the sand.

Asked about his greatest moral failure, he cited his first marriage, which ended in divorce. While saying it was his greatest moral failing, he offered nothing in the way of explanation. Why not?

Throughout the evening, McCain chose to recite portions of his stump speech as answers to the questions he was being asked. Why? He has lived 71 years. Surely he has some thoughts on what it all means that go beyond canned answers culled from the same speech he delivers every day.

He was asked "if evil exists." His response was to repeat for the umpteenth time that Osama bin Laden is a bad man and he will pursue him to "the gates of hell." That was it.

He was asked to define rich. After trying to dodge the question -- his wife is worth a reported $100 million -- he finally said he thought an income of $5 million was rich.

One after another, McCain's answers were shallow, simplistic, and trite. He showed the same intellectual curiosity that George Bush has -- virtually none.


Where are John McCain's writings exploring the vexing moral issues of our time? Where are his position papers setting forth his careful consideration of foreign policy, the welfare state, education, America's moral responsibility in the world, etc., etc., etc.?

John McCain graduated 894th in a class of 899 at the Naval Academy at Annapolis. His father and grandfather were four star admirals in the Navy. Some have suggested that might have played a role in McCain being admitted. His academic record was awful. And it shows over and over again whenever McCain is called upon to think on his feet.

He no longer allows reporters unfettered access to him aboard the "Straight Talk Express" for a reason. He simply makes too many mistakes. Unless he's reciting talking points or reading from notes or a TelePrompTer, John McCain is lost. He can drop bon mots at a bowling alley or diner -- short glib responses that get a chuckle, but beyond that McCain gets in over his head very quickly.

I am sick and tired of the president of the United States embarrassing me. The world we live in is too complex to entrust it to someone else whose idea of intellectual curiosity and grasp of foreign policy issues is to tell us he can look into Vladimir Putin's eyes and see into his soul.

George Bush's record as a student, military man, businessman and leader of the free world is one of constant failure. And the part that troubles me most is he seems content with himself.

He will leave office with the country $10 trillion in debt, fighting two wars, our international reputation in shambles, our government cloaked in secrecy and suspicion that his entire presidency has been a litany of broken laws and promises, our citizens' faith in our own country ripped to shreds. Yet Bush goes bumbling along, grinning and spewing moronic one-liners, as though nobody understands what a colossal failure he has been.

I fear to the depth of my being that John McCain is just like him.


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/18/cafferty.mccain/index.html

Cafferty is dead on. McCain showed no real deep understanding of ANY of the issues presented to him at the Saddleback forum, which was an event carefully designed to be a boost for McCain.

Cycloptichorn
FreeDuck
 
  2  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 11:24 am
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
you have chosen to side with Obama and let our enemies to win - shame on you.


Oh! A members only jacket!
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 11:34 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
the Saddleback forum, which was an event carefully designed to be a boost for McCain.

Laughing LOL !! Drunk
Obama get's his ass handed to him by McCain and that's the best you can come up with?

If Obama is as good as you think then he should be able to adapt and overcome any event.
Of course we will never know what Obama is made of because he is a huge chicken **** that is afraid to debate McCain 1 on 1.

It appears that Obama has been carefully designed to lose.
0 Replies
 
 

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