Teachers -- school me in "verbal"

I'm still pondering your very interesting reply, littlek.

In K and 1 grades most instructions aren't written (at least in Mo's schoos) because the kids couldn't read. I've been thinking back to projects that were done on my volunteer days and it was all verbal -- first color in the spaces, then cut the shapes out, then put the shapes together, and so on.

Maybe as his reading improves and as more instructions are presented in written form he will naturally become more adept.

Maybe I need to work on some super-basic listing of steps in multistage tasks and see what comes out of it.

I'm not finished thinking about what you've written. Lots of food for thought there.

I always think of Mo as older than he is! He's got such a big personality and long history.

What grade is he going into?

Can he draw?

littlek -- you might find some of this stuff on the NLDA education forum interesting.... http://technologyoncall.com/_nldaforum/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=2f03c5a999c27e0fe61f5c31cf241968

Have you ever heard of "Touchmath"?

Cool site!

Hadn't heard about touchmath.

He's 7.5, going into the 2nd grade next month.

He can draw pretty good. "How to draw Sharks" was the book he checked out nearly every week from the school library. Funny to think of it now. The book breaks down drawing into shapes with a really solid progression from one point to the next. Sharks are about the only thing he does draw but he can draw several species of them.

That is perfect! I was wondering if he and you could come up with some visual cuing. In second grade he will need to read and write. The writing could be hard for him once it gets complex. Does he write now?

I knew a teacher when I was a teenager who schooled me in oral..... but I guess that's different than verbal. She was thorough though.

The idea of step by step instructions is really interesting. It's almost like -- forgive me for saying this -- a computer program. I wonder if, eventually, he could read a flow chart, e. g. do this, come to a decision point, if yes, do the next thing, if no, loop back to the start, at next point, wait, then go to next point, do this, if it succeeds, then end.

Jespah - that is a great idea. But, of course a very uncomplicated flow-chart. With only two options at each intersection.

Littlek gives excellent information about NVLD. It really isn't well diagnosed and unfortunately isn't always taken very seriously as a disability as the children are usually very bright and perform well with early academic skills particularly rote skills. There are so many other "non academic" issues that affect the child's everyday life in and out of school that this needs to be taken seriously. Parents of NVLD children HAVE to be a strong advocate for their child in school.

As littlek pointed out these kids just don't see the big picture, they don't see or understand the social cues that we all take for granted. Tone of voice, body language, sarcasm, are all lost on the NVLD child, and must be specifically taught. Keep in mind that the words that we use for communication is only about 20% of what we actually say. The rest is conveyed by tone and volume of voice, context, facial expression and body language. People and their actions and conversations are not easily predictable for these children. This along with any novel situation can be very anxiety producing for these children. You might want to consider consulting with a speech pathologist. Although NVLD kids are wonderful with words, language pragmatics often escape them and a speech path. can help with that and developing social stories to use for social situations.


The OT can help with fine motor tasks. Typically with NVLD children it it the graphomotor aspects of writing, the actual mechanics of printing, writing or drawing, that are difficult, not necessarily the organization of thoughts or conveying ideas. Handwriting requires specific instruction and overlearning before it is mastered. Unfortunately those are skills taught in early grade levels and the NVLD child has not mastered the skill before the class is ready to move on. Instruction will likely need to continue beyond the expected time.

Another thing that the OT can help with is sensory issues if there are any. From other posts you have made I understand that Mo's teachers have already self diagnosed him with ADHD. Sensory issues can easily be mistaken for ADHD ( not that that is a good excuse for any teacher self diagnosing!) but sensory issues are beyond the child's control and would not respond to medications. Has the OT at Mo's school had you and his classroom teacher fill out a sensory profile? If not, it might be a good idea, from what you said about loud noises as well as what ever the teacher's ideas of inattentiveness are.

If there are sensory differences the OT can prescribe a "sensory diet". This is not a food diet but a list of activities prescribed by the OT to meet sensory deficits. Kids with sensory deficits have a difficult time regulating some sensory inputs such as loud noises, some touch, different articles of clothing ( tags, buttons ties, cloth etc), different textures, movement etc. Often these kids look ADHD because they are seeking the sensory input they need, or avoiding the things they can't handle. A sensory diet provides activities that can take place throughout the school day to regulate the child. Some examples are; regular movement breaks, heavy lifting, swinging, fidget items, chewing gum, joint compressions, hand exercises before writing, weighted pencils, there are many many more, but the activities are developed according to specific needs.

Since these kids have such a difficult time taking in and understanding their world through what they see and do, the best way for them to learn is by what they hear. That doesn't mean that the other modes of learning can be disregarded, it just means that hearing is their primary mode of taking in information so all new materials needs to be taught with lengthy explanations. Since they can't trust that they will understand info taken in, they will frequently ask questions, and want everything repeated over and over. They should never have to hear from the teacher, " I already told you that". So what...say it again and again and again! It will help the child process and reduce anxiety and uncertainty. As a parent you could get into the habit of always thinking out loud. Talk your way of thinking and reasoning through every situation and you will be teaching the skill of how to do that.

I love what Littlek said about check lists for home and school. By helping the child to organize their world there is less for them to have to remember and cause anxiety about. These kids are often very tired at the end of the day. It is a lot of work to get through a day filled with unpredictable events, and they are always on heightened alert. This can result in melt downs that look like temper tantrums ( another teacher favorite).

This is a great book that was helpful for me, actually there are alot of good ones out there:

Bridging the Gap, Raising a Child With Nonverbal Learning Disorder by Rondalyn Varney Whitney

I hope some of this is helpful, and if it's not just disregard. You know your son better than anyone else...keep learning for him and from him.

Yeah, I was thinking about Mo this afternoon on the way somewhere and had the thought that he'd make a great technical writer. I was thinking about how I get into a place when I'm working where words are lost. If someone comes to me with a question in this state they get mostly blank stares and mumbles from me. The part of my brain that has words is simply numb. At my job, we would dearly love to have someone who can understand the complexities of a computer program and put it into words. Such a person could create documentation (user manuals, production support guidelines, etc...) that actually makes sense and is useful, as opposed to what we usually create.

Storm watch - very thorough and well-spoken. I'd forgotten about the sensory diet.

I'm fascinated, very interesting, and, littleK, that was a kickass explanation.
I sort of get Mo's confusion. (I learn by reading, being shown, better than being told - though not Mo's level of confusion with it, more just a "shape up, pay attention lack of ease".)

Oh gosh... I'm trying to get dinner ready and everyone settled down for the night but I had to give a big thanks to Stormwatch. I'm going to review that post a lot. Thank you!

Mo did have a session with the OT too but I did not get the chance to review her findings with her. The psych gave me a bit but said the report would be much more detailed.

A sensory diet is an interesting idea. Who knew?

I'm sure I'll have more later regarding your post, Stormwatch.

The computer thing doesn't need forgiving at all Jes. In fact, a lot of the stuff I've been reading over the last few days says to get them started on computers. Mo hasn't shown much interest but I'm going to try to get him interested.

I'll have to try to figure out how to translate his day into flow charts.

The computer might become a very good friend to Mo. For schoolwork.

This is really interesting:



Mo's K teacher gave him the flexibility to move off to a quiet table when he was having problems and this helped him so much.

I mentioned it to his grade 1 teacher and she just moved him off by himself for the duration.

It turned into a real battle but she would insist that he "did so much better" when he didn't have the distraction of the other kids. (Then she would complain about his stunted social skills.)

The psychologist and I talked a lot about this.

We also talked a lot about Mo's reaction to being taken to camp and his absolute melt down because of all the noise.

I was thinking about this yesterday when taking Mo to drum class. He LOVES drum class. He wears ear protection during class (and when he plays at home) but it is still pretty loud.

I'm having a hard time figuring out why one kind of loud is good and one kind of loud is not. Why does he avoid some loud and embrace other loud?

Do you think it could have something to do with the human chatter signifying social interaction where music doesn't really do that?

I've often commented on the fact that Mo is an excellent mimic.

Could this explain his mimicry?

I might be able to use that to his advantage.....

From what I've read so far about the importance of routine/ the difficulty of dealing with the unknown, I think it could be that he has control over the drumming noise but not over the camp noise. He can stop the drumming when he wants to, but the camp noise is uncontrollable.

Very interesting, soz!

Maybe that's why his K teacher's technique was effective and his 1 teacher's was not.

I like what soz said, but also, drumming is rhythmic while the kind of noise I'm thinking of from watching my kids at camp in a big open gym is, well, cacophony. It's disjoint and chaotic. Heck, it overwhelms me as an adult with no sensory issues.