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How McCain tried to tie anthrax scare to Iraq

 
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Aug, 2008 09:03 am
Brandon
Brandon, as I've said before, McCain has a long reputation for his "wink wink" public comments. For example, "I don't know if Barack Obama is a Socialist." Wink Wink. He's inferring that Obama is a socialist. McCain, of course, knows that Obama is not a socialist, but he's trying to lead his uninformed base to believe that Obama is, indeed, a socialist.

Does McCain's campaign style meet his reputation myth of being honorable and positive? NO! He's at war with Barack Obama and, as McCain often says, "I know how to fight wars." McCain is tarnishing his long and carefully prepared reputation. The Press is finally wising up to his myth.

When will you wise up?

BBB
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Aug, 2008 09:25 am
mysteryman wrote:
DrewDad wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
DrewDad wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
DrewDad wrote:
You don't see it as irresponsible for a senior elected official to speculate in public?

I do....

"Talking around the watercooler" is one thing. Going on national TV to speculate is a bit much, IMO.

So for you, then, "irresponsible" = "anti-Christ."

Good reasoning, there, I think you got me.

You're focusing on a small detail of what I said as a device to escape from the actual argument. My point was that what he said, given the way he said it, and when he said it amounts to nothing.

...in your opinion

My opinion differs.

And I stand by my opinion; it was irresponsible for him to speculate on national TV.


So then you would also agree that it is wrong for ANY politician to speculate about anything on national TV?

Would I? That seems like a hell of an extrapolation.

Although it fits right in with the rush to war with Iraq, come to think of it.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Aug, 2008 09:45 am
I'll say it again, the government is at pains to put this story to bed and bury it and, until they can explain how those first cases turned up ten miles from where Mohammed Atta and several of the other 9-11 jackers were living, the story we're reading doesn't fly.

Four nations have ever been able to produce anything like the anthrax used in the attacks, the US, Britain, Russia, and Iraq. Which of the four figures as the place somebody like Mohammed Atta would go for it?
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Aug, 2008 09:51 am
gungasnake wrote:
I'll say it again, the government is at pains to put this story to bed and bury it and, until they can explain how those first cases turned up ten miles from where Mohammed Atta and several of the other 9-11 jackers were living, the story we're reading doesn't fly.

Four nations have ever been able to produce anything like the anthrax used in the attacks, the US, Britain, Russia, and Iraq. Which of the four figures as the place somebody like Mohammed Atta would go for it?

I'm sure the FBI just turned a blind eye to the possibility of international terrorism in order to persecute a poor, defenseless scientist.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Aug, 2008 11:32 am
DrewDad wrote:
gungasnake wrote:
I'll say it again, the government is at pains to put this story to bed and bury it and, until they can explain how those first cases turned up ten miles from where Mohammed Atta and several of the other 9-11 jackers were living, the story we're reading doesn't fly.

Four nations have ever been able to produce anything like the anthrax used in the attacks, the US, Britain, Russia, and Iraq. Which of the four figures as the place somebody like Mohammed Atta would go for it?

I'm sure the FBI just turned a blind eye to the possibility of international terrorism in order to persecute a poor, defenseless scientist.


Now you got it, drewdad.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Aug, 2008 06:18 am
I'm quite sure they did. I'm positive there is "more to the story".

We'll never know.

And yes, Obama IS a socialist. His voting record proves it.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Aug, 2008 06:32 am
There's a near 100% certainty that this story we're reading is BS. They're not even trying to explain how the first cases turned up ten miles from where the 9-11 jackers were living, how somebody at Ft. Dietrich knew to set the anthrax thing in motion days prior to 9-11, or what possible MOTIVE there might have been and that last item is a killer.

What motive could an American scientist possibly have for poisoning a post office building and the US senate office building with anthrax? All we've read so far is "This guy was a serious a$$h***, he musta done it!!". I've known lots of serious a$$H***s and the idea of poisoning the US senate office building with anthrax or anything else never occurred to any of them.

What possible motive? Money? The feds oave been watching this guy for seven years and just now notice something amiss in his bank accounts? Sex? You mean like "Screw rock stars and rappers, I wanna make it with that old guy who just poisoned the US senate office building with anthrax, that's KOOL!!"?? Bragging rights are out since there's no evidence he ever told anybody about it. Personal satisfaction? Like maybe "Well, now I've proved to myself I can poison the US senate office building with anthrax, time to go out and learn how to crush golf balls with a #2 wood driver!!"

ALL of that is BS. The anthrax attack was a shot across the bow from Saddam Hussein. It was a message to America which translates roughly into "Hey, fools, a bunch of my homeys just blew your two towers down and if you try to do anything about it, here's a taste of what could happen!!!"
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Aug, 2008 06:50 am
I tend to agree.

For those that dismiss it as crazy talk, it snowed in Baghdad last Christmas.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Aug, 2008 07:16 am
Another comment I've read...

Quote:

If you’re making a mooring stake to hold a mooring in a frozen harbor over the winter, you start out with a fence post, caulk it, cover it with fiberglass, paint it, attach a ring to the top for grabbing it in the spring, drill a large hole in the bottom to hold your mooring chain, and add a weight so it will stick up in the air. Only then does the fence post become a mooring stake. By the time it’s ready to go into the water, you have about 15 hours of labor and $100 of cost into what started out as a $5.00 fence post, plus a good deal of mess in your garage.

From all I’ve read about this anthrax case, laboratory anthrax is to weaponized anthrax much as my fence post is to my mooring stake; hence, going from lab anthrax to weaponized anthrax would take a lot of research and processing. The FBI still hasn’t managed to explain how Ivins was able to turn ordinary lab anthrax into weaponized anthrax without getting caught. For example, they’ve not mentioned any actual connection he may have had with a program to weaponize it, any research he may have done in any such program, or how he was able actually to do the weaponization without getting caught.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Aug, 2008 08:44 am
cj
cjhsa wrote:
And yes, Obama IS a socialist. His voting record proves it.


You've been inhaling too much gun powder and it's fried your brain.

BBB
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Aug, 2008 08:47 am
Re: cj
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
And yes, Obama IS a socialist. His voting record proves it.


You've been inhaling too much gun powder and it's fried your brain.

BBB


I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning. You might want to take a look at his voting record before you start taking umbrage with me, young lady.

http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=9490
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Aug, 2008 08:50 am
cj
cj, you would call anyone not on the extreme right wing a sociallist, wouldn't you?

And don't patronize me by calling me a "young lady."

BBB
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Aug, 2008 08:51 am
Laughing
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Aug, 2008 08:55 am
cj
.....And another thing. On a previous post, you wondered how I could continue to be "an idealist."

I'm not an idealist, never have been. I have a strong sense of justice. I've fought for doing the right thing all of my life.

So piss on your impressions!

BBB
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Aug, 2008 09:16 am
Re: Brandon
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Brandon, as I've said before, McCain has a long reputation for his "wink wink" public comments. For example, "I don't know if Barack Obama is a Socialist." Wink Wink. He's inferring that Obama is a socialist. McCain, of course, knows that Obama is not a socialist, but he's trying to lead his uninformed base to believe that Obama is, indeed, a socialist.

Does McCain's campaign style meet his reputation myth of being honorable and positive? NO! He's at war with Barack Obama and, as McCain often says, "I know how to fight wars." McCain is tarnishing his long and carefully prepared reputation. The Press is finally wising up to his myth.


Well, I'm confused ... does McCain have a reputation for "wink wink," or a reputation for "honorable and positive"?

Quote:
When will you wise up?


Educate us, oh wise and ancient magus.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Aug, 2008 09:44 am
Tico
McCain has nurtured his mythical honorable and positive style via a ga ga media who are only now finding out the stupid scribblers have been had.

So says the "Old Bag."

BBB
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Aug, 2008 10:48 am
Three Questions For ABC News About Its Anthrax Reporting
Three Questions For ABC News About Its Anthrax Reporting
by Jay Rosen
August 4, 2008

No need for a big preamble. Dan Gillmor and I are posting these questions simultaneously. (Here's his case for them.) We think ABC News should answer them. They arise from two columns by Salon's Glenn Greenwald, who has been tracking this story for some time.

* Vital unresolved anthrax questions and ABC News, in which he shows that ABC News was probably duped by someone on a story of huge importance, putting Iraqi fingerprints on anthrax attacks that actually came from the U.S at a time when the case for war with Iraq was beginning to get traction. (Salon.com, Aug. 1)

* Journalists, their lying sources, and the anthrax investigation in which he makes the case for revealing the sources who completely misled ABC News or lied to it, including precedents where journalists have done just that. (Salon.com, Aug. 3)

If you want to understand our questions, go read Greenwald now.

Back? Greenwald raises many different kinds of questions. Some are aimed at a possible Congressional investigation, others at journalists willing to investigate further from here. On Saturday morning, Dan Gillmor and I had the same thought when we read Greenwald's post: "ABC News has to respond."

But to what, exactly? We tried to put it into three questions: tough but fair as people there would probably say on other occasions. And we're simply asking others who want to know the answers to post the questions in some form at your own site. I would call them "interlocking" and aimed at the same unknowns.

Three Vital Questions for ABC News About its Anthrax Reporting in 2001

1. Sources who are granted confidentiality give up their rights when they lie or mislead the reporter. Were you lied to or misled by your sources when you reported several times in 2001 that anthrax found in domestic attacks came from Iraq or showed signs of Iraqi involvement?

2. It now appears that the attacks were of domestic origin and the anthrax came from within U.S. government facilities. This leads us to ask you: who were the "four well-placed and separate sources" who falsely told ABC News that tests conducted at Fort Detrick showed bentonite in the anthrax sent to Sen. Tom Daschle, causing ABC News to connect the attacks to Iraq in multiple reports over a five day period in October, 2001?

3. A substantially false story that helps make the case for war by raising fears about enemies abroad attacking the United States is released into public debate because of faulty reporting by ABC News. How that happened and who was responsible is itself a major story of public interest. What is ABC News doing to re-report these events, to figure out what went wrong and to correct the record for the American people who were misled?

There are many other questions worth asking in what is still a very murky story. But Dan and I think these three go to the heart of what ABC ought to tell us.

My reasoning?

Though I am a frequent critic of the practice, I am not against the use of confidential sources. I am quite aware of how important it is in national security reporting to promise some sources confidentiality. And I am sympathetic to the pleas of journalists who have made contracts: "we have to keep our word or sources won't trust us." That is true.

But the only way such a system can work is when sources know: if you lie, or mislead the reporter into a false report you will be exposed. People who believe strongly in the need for confidential sources should be strongly in favor of their exposure in clear cases of abuse, because that is the only way a practice like this has a prayer of retaining its legitimacy. What's a "clear case" of abuse? Well, we have to argue about it-- and try to be clear. There's no other way. Each case is different. Each has particulars that count.

In the confidential sources system that we have, professionals keeping counsel with themselves bargain away the citizen's right to know. Sitting outside that transaction, we're supposed to trust them-- in the dark, as it were. Ninety-nine percent of the time, we are unable to judge how good a bargain they struck for us because the names of their sources remain cloaked.

Which is why we can never trust them if they can't take action when they get played. This looks like a case where ABC News got played. Looks like, I said. We can't know until the good people there answer some questions. These three would be a good start.

Also see my colleague Dan Gillmor, ABC Has Major Questions to Answer in Anthrax Story. "The network's hyperventilating broadcasts of leaked, false allegations purportedly tying the anthrax to Saddam Hussein's Iraqi regime was bad enough. What the organization is doing now is journalistically unforgivable..."

Some other reactions:

Ex-Times-Picayune investigative reporter and Pulitzer winner John McQuaid, also a Huff Post-er says, "It's imperative for ABC to tell us what happened here." He also says: "Big media and the government are already in a kind credibility death spiral. This doesn't help."

Washington Monthly's Kevin Drum:

In practice, most journalists refuse to identify their sources under any circumstances at all, even when it's clear that those sources deliberately lied to them. But should that be the standard? Or is the profession -- and the rest of us -- better off if sources know that they run the risk of being unmasked if their mendacity is egregious enough to become newsworthy in its own right? I'd say the latter.

At a guess, Brian Ross is re-reporting this story as we speak. I'd be shocked if he were doing anything else -- and I'd say that part of that re-reporting ought to include a full explanation of exactly who was peddling the bentonite lie in the first place, and why they were doing it.

The New Republic's Dayo Olopade: "Pressure on ABC to out their sources should be swift and sustained."

The New Republic's John Judis: "I join those who believe that some kind of congressional investigation is in order. There are too many echoes of Niger and uranium."

Marcy Wheeler: "Who First Spread the Iraqi Anthrax Claim?" Important.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Aug, 2008 08:52 pm
Re: Brandon
Ticomaya wrote:
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Brandon, as I've said before, McCain has a long reputation for his "wink wink" public comments. For example, "I don't know if Barack Obama is a Socialist." Wink Wink. He's inferring that Obama is a socialist. McCain, of course, knows that Obama is not a socialist, but he's trying to lead his uninformed base to believe that Obama is, indeed, a socialist.

Does McCain's campaign style meet his reputation myth of being honorable and positive? NO! He's at war with Barack Obama and, as McCain often says, "I know how to fight wars." McCain is tarnishing his long and carefully prepared reputation. The Press is finally wising up to his myth.


Well, I'm confused ... does McCain have a reputation for "wink wink," or a reputation for "honorable and positive"?

That you're confused hardly comes as any sort of a shock, Tico.


Quote:
When will you wise up?


Educate us, oh wise and ancient magus.


Obviously education is not something that sticks all that well with you so it would be a complete waste of BBB's time and efforts.

Keep at what you do best, memorizing memes and trying to divert attention from the real issues.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Aug, 2008 08:55 pm
Read the whole article.


Quote:


Sunday Aug. 3, 2008 07:26 EDT
Journalists, their lying sources, and the anthrax investigation

Glenn Greenwald

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/03/journalism/index.html

The unanswered questions in the anthrax case are literally too numerous to chronicle. It is so vital to emphasize that not a shred of evidence has yet been presented that the now-deceased Bruce Ivins played any role in the anthrax attacks, let alone that he was the sole or even primary culprit. Nonetheless, just as they did with Steven Hatfill, the media (with some notable and important exceptions) are reporting this case as though the matter is resolved.

Given the significance of the anthrax attacks, it would be unconscionable for there to be anything other than a full-scale Congressional or independent investigation -- with a full airing of all the facts -- regarding everything that happened here. Those issues should include exploration of the following questions, many of which might well have perfectly reasonable and benign explanations, and some of which may not, but until there is a full airing, it will necessarily be the case -- and it should be the case -- that this episode will only serve to further erode whatever lingering trust there is in media and government institutions:

* Why were White House aides given cipro weeks before the anthrax attacks, and why "on the night of the Sept. 11 attacks, [did] the White House Medical Office dispense[] Cipro to staff accompanying Vice President Dick Cheney as he was secreted off to the safety of Camp David"? [Washington Post, 10/23/2001];

* Why, if Cheney was given cipro on the night of the 9/11 attacks, was he allegedly "convinced that he had been subjected to a lethal dose of anthrax" on October 18, and that this fear is what led him to seek refuge in "undisclosed locations" and thereafter support an array of hard-line tactics against suspected terrorists? [Jane Mayer, The Dark Side, 2008];

* Which "high government official" told Richard Cohen to take cipro prior to the anthrax attacks (it wasn't a "source" who did so, since Cohen didn't write about it and apparently never intended to; it was just someone high up in Government passing along a helpful tip to a media friend) [Richard Cohen, Slate, March 18, 2008];

* Did the FBI meaningfully investigate who sent an anonymous letter to the FBI after the anthrax letters were sent, but before they were made public, accusing a former Fort Detrick scientist -- the Arab-American Ayaad Assaad -- of being a "potential biological terrorist," after Assaad was forced out of Fort Detrick by a group of USAMRIID bioweapons researchers who had exhibited extreme anti-Arab animus? [Laura Rozen, Salon, 1/26/2002];

* Why did the FBI gives its consent in October, 2001 for the remaining samples of the Ames anthrax strain to be destroyed, thereby losing crucial "genetic clues valuable to the criminal inquiry"? [San Francisco Chronicle, 11/9/2001];

* If -- as was publicly disclosed as early as 2004 -- Bruce Ivins' behavior in 2001 and 2002 in conducting unauthorized tests on anthrax residue was so suspicious, why was he allowed to remain with access to the nation's most dangerous toxins for many years after, and why wasn't he a top suspect much earlier? [USA Today, 10/13/2004];

* If it's really the case -- as principal Ivins antagonist Jean Duley claims -- that Ivins, as far back as 2000, had "actually attempted to murder several other people, [including] through poisoning" and had threatened to kill his co-workers at his Fort Detrick lab, then why did he continue to maintain clearance to work on biological weapons, and why are his co-workers and friends, with virtual unanimity, insisting that he never displayed any behavior suggestive of being the anthrax attacker? [Washington Post, August 3, 2008];

* What was John McCain referencing when he went on national television in October, 2001 and claimed "there is some indication, and I don't have the conclusions, but some of this anthrax may -- and I emphasize may -- have come from Iraq"? [Late Show with David Letterman, 10/18/2001];

* What was Joe Lieberman's basis for stating on national television, three days after McCain's Letterman appearance and in the midst of advocating a U.S. attack on Iraq, that the anthrax was so complex and potent that "there's either a significant amount of money behind this, or this is state-sponsored, or this is stuff that was stolen from the former Soviet program"? [Meet the Press, 10/21/2001];

* What did Pat Leahy mean when he said the following in a September, 2007 interview:

Leahy: What I want to know -- I have a theory. But what I want to know is why me, why Tom Daschle, why Tom Brokaw?

VDB: Right. That all fits into the profile of a kind of hard-core and obviously insane ideologue on the far Right, somebody who would fixate on especially Tom Daschle, who at that point was the target of daily, vitriolic attacks on Right-wing talk radio.

Leahy: [Slowly, with a little shake of the head] I don't think it's somebody insane. I'd accept everything else you said. But I don't think it's somebody insane. And I think there are people within our government -- certainly from the source of it -- who know where it came from. [Taps the table to let that settle in] And these people may not have had anything to do with it, but they certainly know where it came from.

[Vermont Daily Briefing, 9/5/2007];

* Who were the "four separate and well-placed sources" who told ABC News, falsely, that tests conducted at Fort Detrick had found the presence of bentonite in the anthrax sent to Tom Daschle, causing ABC News to aggressively link the attacks to Iraq for five straight days in October, 2001? [Salon, 4/9/2007];

* Who was responsible for the numerous leaks even before the ABC News bentonite reports linking the anthrax attacks to Iraq? [The Guardian; 10/14/2001; Wall St. Journal Editorial, 10/15/2001 ("Is Iraq unleashing biological weapons on America?"); CNN, 10/15/2001].

There are plenty of other similar questions. As I said, many of these events could have perfectly reasonable explanations, ranging from significant ineptitude in the FBI investigation to acute caution on the part of the White House in ordering cipro. But given the magnitude of this episode, the far-from-convincing case made against Ivins, and the way in which -- even by the most generous account -- the Government and media's conduct have been driven by extreme unreliability and chronic errors, who could argue against a very sweeping and serious Congressional investigation -- or a genuinely independent investigative body -- devoted to disclosing all of the facts here, along the lines of what the 9/11 Commission was charged with doing?
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Aug, 2008 09:29 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
He was feeding into the hysteria that led to the bogus war.

It wasnt bogus at all. I'm sure you won't dare speculate on what a world containing a Saddam Hussein armed with nuclear and biological weapons would have been like. At the time of the invasion, there was plently of reason to believe that Iraq hadn't completely destroyed the development labs. It turned out not to be true, but hindsight is 20/20.
0 Replies
 
 

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