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Mon 28 Jul, 2008 09:29 am
Obama's view that affirmative action should, after these many years, continue may lead to his defeat in November. And this may be the correct result. Affirmative action equates to discrimination against nonbeneficiaries, usually while males. Obama says he is against quotas, but so-called goals are invariable set up. Moreover, the goals are a euphemism for quotas. Obama should assidiously avoid the AA term and instead embrace programs the benefit the economically disadvantaged, regardless of race, gender, or ethnic origin.
Obama, McCain spar over affirmative action
By William Douglas
McClatchy Washington Bureau
Article Launched: 07/28/2008 01:32:07 AM PDT
CHICAGO - Presidential challengers John McCain and Barack Obama sparred over affirmative action Sunday, with McCain backing an effort to end state and locally run minority preferences and Obama saying policies that consider race need to continue.
McCain, speaking on ABC's "This Week," said he backs a proposed ballot initiative in his home state of Arizona that would prohibit affirmative action policies by state and local governments.
The initiative is part of a nationwide attempt by Ward Connerly to have governmental affirmative action policies eliminated. Connerly, a conservative African-American businessman from Sacramento, who led a successful drive to ban affirmative action in California, has been trying to do the same thing in other states.
Asked Sunday whether he supported Connerly's efforts in Arizona, McCain said "Yes, I do," adding that he had not seen the details of the proposal. "But I've always opposed quotas."
McCain's endorsement was an apparent shift on affirmative action. The Republican senator has spoken out against quota systems but has also backed affirmative action in certain cases. He opposed a 1998 resolution in the Arizona Legislature that asked voters to eliminate most preferences based on race, gender or ethnic origin.
"Rather than engage in divisive ballot initiatives, we must have a dialogue and cooperation and mutual efforts together to provide every child in America to fulfill their expectations," he said at the time.
Obama, speaking at the Unity minority journalism convention in Chicago, accused McCain of flip-flopping and reminded convention attendees about McCain's 1998 remarks.
"And I think he's right," he said. "You know, the truth of the matter is, these are not designed to solve a big problem, but they're all too often designed to drive a wedge between people."
In an interview on NBC's "Meet the Press," Obama refused again and again to give hints on whom he might pick for a running mate, but he did describe the qualities he's looking for. Shyness and blind loyalty are not among them.
"I'm going to want somebody with independence, who's willing to tell me where he thinks or she thinks I'm wrong," he said.
Obama took time off from the campaign to see a doctor at the University of Chicago Medical Center on Sunday night to deal with a sore hip.
"His hip has been sore from basketball for a few weeks, so he's going to see an orthopedic doctor," Obama spokesman Robert Gibbs said.
Re: OBAMA AND AFFIRMATIVE ACTION
Among other things, Obama's view on affirmative action will lead to his defeat in November.
Re: OBAMA AND AFFIRMATIVE ACTION
H2O_MAN wrote:Among other things, Obama's view onaffirmative action will lead to his defeat in November.
I agree with you, so I must be wrong.
Depends on how it's framed. By far, the largest group benefiting from affirmative action is .... wait for it..... WHITE WOMEN. Affirmative action has been essential in allowing women to break into some high paying, male dominated fields. Many of these fields are clearly still male dominated in the management areas. All Obama has to do it make the point, repeatedly, that McCain's position is anti-women and he is for increasing the roles women play in the workplace and he's got a winner.
Re: OBAMA AND AFFIRMATIVE ACTION
Advocate wrote:H2O_MAN wrote:Among other things, Obama's view onaffirmative action will lead to his defeat in November.
I agree with you, so I must be wrong.
LOL !!
Ain't that the painful truth.
Re: OBAMA AND AFFIRMATIVE ACTION
Advocate wrote:H2O_MAN wrote:Among other things, Obama's view onaffirmative action will lead to his defeat in November.
I agree with you, so I must be wrong.
One certainly can't fault your logic there . . .
Re: OBAMA AND AFFIRMATIVE ACTION
Setanta wrote:
One certainly can't fault your logic there . . .
What do you know of logic?
What is telling is that even when talking about Obama's "defeat" the other guy never gets mentioned. If this prediction were true I would think one would consider it what's his name's "victory" rather than Obama's defeat.
They can't both lose...
engineer wrote:Depends on how it's framed. By far, the largest group benefiting from affirmative action is .... wait for it..... WHITE WOMEN. Affirmative action has been essential in allowing women to break into some high paying, male dominated fields. Many of these fields are clearly still male dominated in the management areas. All Obama has to do it make the point, repeatedly, that McCain's position is anti-women and he is for increasing the roles women play in the workplace and he's got a winner.
You are correct that women have been the big winners in AA. But I think the main reason that women are succeeding is that they have become the majority in many cases in various academic fields. Also, they have caste aside the old mentality that women belonged in subservient roles (e.g., secretary, nurse, waitress, etc.).
The funny thing is that more Americans support Affirmative Action than oppose it (this
Gallup Poll shows 49-43 in favor of AA for racial minorities).
The Conservatives don't understand that turning the majority of Americans into "liberals" is not a good electoral strategy (as they saw in the 2006 elections and will see again in November).
Advocate wrote:engineer wrote:Depends on how it's framed. By far, the largest group benefiting from affirmative action is .... wait for it..... WHITE WOMEN. Affirmative action has been essential in allowing women to break into some high paying, male dominated fields. Many of these fields are clearly still male dominated in the management areas. All Obama has to do it make the point, repeatedly, that McCain's position is anti-women and he is for increasing the roles women play in the workplace and he's got a winner.
You are correct that women have been the big winners in AA. But I think the main reason that women are succeeding is that they have become the majority in many cases in various academic fields. Also, they have caste aside the old mentality that women belonged in subservient roles (e.g., secretary, nurse, waitress, etc.).
There is no doubt that society has changed to make the success of women more acceptable, but I can tell you as someone that works in a male dominated field that AA makes old line managers look outside their little world. My old boss was clearly a "men are better engineers," old school. AA has forced him to look around at all the qualified women for supervisors.
I'm always surprised to see affirmative action discussed in terms of liberal/conservative.
My brother, who is a General in the US Army, self identifies as conservative but is a BIG believer in affirmative action.
I self identify as a moderate liberal and definately identify as a woman am not nearly the supporter he is.
So I'm just going to read along to see if the why of this being a liberal v. conservative issue becomes any clearer......
boomerang wrote:I'm always surprised to see affirmative action discussed in terms of liberal/conservative.
My brother, who is a General in the US Army, self identifies as conservative but is a BIG believer in affirmative action.
I self identify as a moderate liberal and definately identify as a woman am not nearly the supporter he is.
So I'm just going to read along to see if the why of this being a liberal v. conservative issue becomes any clearer......
I don't think that anyone really made this a lib v. conservative issue, except to point out that McCain is against AA and Obama is for it. However, I think that the Reps have often successfully used the issue against libs who favor AA. In NC a few years ago, a black running for governor was hammered for his alleged support of AA.
AA needs to go......but I'm just a white male, my opinions don't count.
Quotas are racist.
There is no getting around it.
They are a means of making a choice based on race.
Why does it surprise anyone that Obama would support quotas?
Obama isn't against ALL racism, just some of it.
Advocate wrote:boomerang wrote:I'm always surprised to see affirmative action discussed in terms of liberal/conservative.
My brother, who is a General in the US Army, self identifies as conservative but is a BIG believer in affirmative action.
I self identify as a moderate liberal and definately identify as a woman am not nearly the supporter he is.
So I'm just going to read along to see if the why of this being a liberal v. conservative issue becomes any clearer......
I don't think that anyone really made this a lib v. conservative issue, except to point out that McCain is against AA and Obama is for it. However, I think that the Reps have often successfully used the issue against libs who favor AA. In NC a few years ago, a black running for governor was hammered for his alleged support of AA.
For the record, this is another issue in which McCain has flip-flopped (where the flop came in this years campaign).
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