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WHAT IS GIVING LOVE TO CHILDREN ?

 
 
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2008 09:43 pm
This is a variation on a theme,
taken from one of the censorship threads,
tho this is not concerned with censorship;
rather it is concerned with the generation of human emotion.



Thru my youth and middle age, I had no emotions toward children;
(except those who insisted upon screaming for great lengths of time
in restaurants or in planes or trains, toward whom I bore intense antagonism).
Most of my contact with them was within a professional environment,
when thay were involved in litigation, usually personal injury litigation,
within whose context, I treated them indistinguishably with the same
courtesy and respect as all other ligitants, never talking "down" to them,
nor addressing them by their first names.

In my older age, I feel a sense of benevolence toward them.
If I see them shouted at, or handled ruffly (not correctly spelled "roughly"),
I perceive a moral offense.
Unlike another citizen of this forum, this has no element of carnal desire,
but sometimes I appreciate children 's beauty, the same as beauty in a kitten,
a puppy, a rosebud or a sunset.

In my opinion, love is expressed to a person as kindness,
and if this gift is successful, it is absorbed into its target, as joy.
For instance, over the weekend, a lady of my acquaintance, the manager of a summer resort,
told me that she will take her several little boys to a place of entertainment
to celebrate some of their birthdays. She and her husband seem to be in
a little bit of a financially tight situation.
I don 't know her children; I have never spoken to them, tho I 've seen them,
but I gave her a few hundred $$ to magnify and intensify their respective joys
during this celebratory excursion. In the same place, I saw a very little 5 year old boy,
digging with a tiny shovel in a sandbox. I had 7 dimes at hand, change from a purchase.
I threw the dimes in front of him.
He looked perplexed; his mother had to explain to him that he shoud pick them up.
I think he liked the gift; (break the monotony, anyway, at least for his mother, if not for him.)

Similarly, some years ago, while at a gunnery range,
a group of Boy Scouts in uniform arrived, led by their Scout Master,
to whom I gave several hundred $$ for ammunition, and for such movies
and ice cream etc. of their choice, and I showed them the handguns that
I was using on that occasion, while advising them in the years and decades to come
always to vote against liberals and Democrats. We all agreed that voting
against liberals was a fine thing to do. Thay sent me a nice giant card
expressing their gratitude, signed by many boys, promising to vote against liberals.


On an eclectic basis, I accept Jeremy Bentham's vu that the gratuitous
creation of unnecessary pain is bad and that the unexpected creation of joy is good.

Some people who have returned from death (usually in hospitals)
have reported seeing their lives pass in front of them,
and that thay felt the pain and the joy that thay created in their fellow beings.

" The quality of mercy is not strained.
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest:
It blesseth him that gives, and him that takes. "
Shakespeare; the Merchant of Venice; Act 4 scene 1



If one 's goal is to create joy,
it appears to me that it is more cost effective and efficient
on a per dollar basis to give cash to those whose cash flow is smaller.
Few children have jobs.
Accordingly, many of them are not accustomed to handling much cash,
so that the unexpected arrival of a small amount thereof,
maybe $20 or $50 will evoke more joy than someone with a larger cash flow.

HOWEVER, it can also be fun
to begift waitresses in good restaurants,
if thay be of singular and intense beauty.
Tests have revealed that thay like $100.oo bills.

(Give it a shot and report back.)



David
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OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 05:52 am
For those of u in England,
u can give the waitresses a hundred pounds of sterling silver, if u want,
if thay be of sufficient beauty.


Let us know how that works out.




David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 05:56 am
Maybe the waitresses will like the silver better
if u polish it so that it shines.




David
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 09:06 am
Having at different times in my life been both a poor child and a pretty waitress I can assure you that love doesn't have anything to do with money.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 10:50 am
Therefore, u deny
my notion that love is expressed as kindness
and IF the gift is successful, absorbed into its target, as joy.




David
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 12:15 pm
Yes, I do deny it.

My son can get a new toy and it makes him happy for a while.

What might make the toy "joyous" is me taking the time to play along with him as he uses his toy.

But even that joy is fleeting.

I don't believe that things bring joy.

I think children know this instinctively; they don't really get joy from things.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 05:28 pm
boomerang wrote:
Yes, I do deny it.

My son can get a new toy and it makes him happy for a while.

What might make the toy "joyous" is me taking the time to play along with him as he uses his toy.

But even that joy is fleeting.

I don't believe that things bring joy.

I think children know this instinctively; they don't really get joy from things.

I surmise that your post implies
that the difference between happiness and joy its the length of its endurance ?

My individual gifts usually succeed; (not always).*
I remember in 2000, as I walked past a group of teenage girls
in Disneyworld, I gave the prettiest one a $20 bill.
She literally leaped up in the air (surprisingly hi) while squealing with delight.
MY vu of that was that I had succeeded in creating joy;
in significantly elevating her level of contentment.




David



*An example of failure
is the following, which happened several times
over a few years, in Manhattan:
seeing a bum rifling thru a public trash can for refundable bottles or cans
(I believe at 5 cents each, unless thay raised it), throwing the dirt in the street,
I have given the bums (both male n female) $3 or $5.
At that rate, that is 20 cans to the dollar.

In every case,
the reaction was the same as tho I had handed him last week 's newspaper.

Each effort to create joy was a 100% failure.




David
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 05:35 pm
Why did you give the $20 to the one you percieved as "prettiest?"
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 06:10 pm
squinney wrote:
Why did you give the $20 to the one you percieved as "prettiest?"

To reward her
for radiating the greatest amount of beauty out into the world.
She was like a Beauty Fountain.


In that vein, something that I 've done over the years
is call over a beautiful waitress (not necessarily my own) in a restaurant
hand her a $100.oo bill, informing her that she won the contest.*

Invariably, thay have inquired qua " what contest ? "
Then I told her that it was " the most beautiful girl around here contest. "




David


*A variation on the " contest " theme
was in the mid 1980s, I was seeing a young lady who had an 8 year old boy.
In some ways, he reminded me of myself, at that age.
I travel a lot; I go to many conventions of different groups to which I belong,
scattered around America.
I mailed him a $100.oo bill, postmarked from a distant state,
under cover of a letter saying something like this:

Mr. Richard Whateverthehell
Address NY
" Dear Sir:
1. It is the purpose of this writing to inform you that you have won
second prize in the contest.

2. Here is the money.

3. Better luck next time.


.........................................................The Contest Committee. "

He was known to like dinosaurs (not that he had any).
I bought a sheet of stamps from the Post Office with pictures of different
dinosaurs on them, which I applied to such cash bearing letters to him,
( always typed )
from distant states. Thay have never been attributed to me.

I also reasoned that he 'd describe this perhaps unusual event
to his friends in school ( or for that matter, to his grandchildren )
and that with each re-telling, he 'd mentally re-live the experience,
but it woud cost me nothing.

I know that he liked cash
because he kept hitting his mother up for it whenever I went over there.


David
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 06:24 pm
No, it's not the endurance. The joy comes from the time spent together, not the object itself.

I could counter your stories with the one about the time I was bartending and found the keys and title to a car, a Porche, in my tip jar. Sure it was older and a little beat up but worth several thousands of dollars.

I was bewildered and amazed but not "joyous".

Getting joy from objects is a very lonely kind of thing.

At this point in my life I could afford just about any object that my son desired. For me to be so "kind" as to grant all his wishes to bring him "joy" would be a disaster. I consider such parenting child abuse.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 07:47 pm
boomerang wrote:


Quote:

No, it's not the endurance.
The joy comes from the time spent together, not the object itself.

The fact IS,
altho few people r consciously aware of it,
each of us has the ability to select from any emotion,
regardless of environing circumstances.
It is always a subjective choice, tho people usually react reflexively.



Quote:

I could counter your stories with the one about the time I was bartending
and found the keys and title to a car, a Porche, in my tip jar. Sure it was
older and a little beat up but worth several thousands of dollars.

Did u drive it or sell it ?


Quote:
I was bewildered and amazed but not "joyous".

The fact IS,
altho few people r consciously aware of it,
each of us has the ability to select from any emotion,
regardless of environing circumstances.
It is always a subjective choice, tho people usually react reflexively.




Quote:

Getting joy from objects is a very lonely kind of thing.

I don 't understand what that means.




Quote:

At this point in my life I could afford just about any object that my son desired.
For me to be so "kind" as to grant all his wishes to bring him "joy" would be a disaster.

I consider such parenting child abuse.

I guess that has a lot to do with what he WANTS.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 07:51 pm
boomerang wrote:
Yes, I do deny it.

My son can get a new toy and it makes him happy for a while.

What might make the toy "joyous" is me taking the time to play along with him as he uses his toy.

But even that joy is fleeting.

I don't believe that things bring joy.

I think children know this instinctively; they don't really get joy from things.

My memory must be confused.
I seemed to remember from Abuzz
that Boomerang was an 80-some-odd-year-old lady in Austrailia.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 08:03 pm
Yes, you are confused. I'm a 47 year old woman from America.

And I don't believe we chose how we feel.

And I drove it for years and years and then I sold it for several thousands of dollars.

It is lonely in that objects cannot truly make a person content.

No. It doesn't depend on what he wants. I can buy it.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 08:12 pm
Boomer, you are trying to discuss the taste of bananas with someone who doesn't even have a frikkin tastebud.

I admire your perseverance, but "pearls before swine" doesn't even come into the vicinity of capturing the folly.
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 08:15 pm
Dave, I recommend a moment or three of reflection...

Love has nothing to do with money, unless money is all you have to give.

Bless you for trying, but true understanding can not be purchased.

Keep searching,

Rock
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 08:15 pm
Please -

stop with the feeding.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 08:18 pm
That wasn't directed to you, RH.

The feeding seems to fluff legitimacy.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 08:30 pm
Not RH, who, then?
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 08:41 pm
Ha! I think she meant OmSig, Snood, not you.

I love the banannas thing.... so true! What an impossible flavor.

Personally I don't think David is a troll. Sure, he has some wacky ideas but he also has some interesting ideas.

Love is so complicated. To think that it can be created with money is... well.... perplexing.

I grew up with nothing but love and I was a happy kid.

I lived long enough without any money to understand and respect the importance of money. But money isn't even close to everything. It certainly isn't love.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jul, 2008 09:48 pm
boomerang wrote:


Quote:
Yes, you are confused.
I'm a 47 year old woman from America.

Well, either someone else used that screename before
or I am simply rong in my memory.


Quote:
And I don't believe we chose how we feel.

OK; If u say so.



Quote:
And I drove it for years and years and then I sold it for several thousands of dollars.

I hope u enjoyed it.


It is lonely in that objects cannot truly make a person content.

Quote:
No. It doesn't depend on what he wants.
I can buy it.

I was responding to your assertion
that:
" ... For me to be so "kind" as to grant all his wishes
to bring him "joy" would be a disaster.
I consider such parenting child abuse. "
0 Replies
 
 

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