McCain: Obama Socialist? "I Don't Know" smear

MCain is good at the wink-wink thing. I recall when he was campaigning early on some conservative reporter said something derogatory about Hillary. MCain acted as if his comments were inappropriate, but I got the distinct impression the whole scene was staged to make MCain look virtuous.

ala
So McCain thinks Obama is not only a Muslim, but is also a socialist. How could he be both?

BBB

Re: McCain: Obama Socialist? "I Don't Know" smear



So what part of this is incorrect? His record IS to the left of Sanders.

Is Obama beyond criticism?

Re: McCain: Obama Socialist? "I Don't Know" smear


His record is to the left of Sanders?

Do you have a link on this?

Cycloptichorn

Thursday, Jan. 31, 2008 14:43 EST
Obama's the most liberal senator?
by Alex Koppelman - Salon

Every year, the National Journal, a Washington weekly magazine, comes out with a ranking of the most liberal and conservative members of Congress. And just about as often, political campaigns use those rankings to score points against their opponents. But looking at the start of this year's list (the Journal released only partial results; the full list will be out in March), we can't help thinking of that other big annual ranking, U.S. News & World Report's college list. And we can't help wondering whether the National Journal's list is just as capricious -- and even, dare we say it, inaccurate -- as that one.

That's because the big finding the Journal is trumpeting this time around is that the Senate's most liberal member in 2007 was Sen. Barack Obama. That puts him ahead of, for example, Wisconsin Sen. Russ Feingold. Oh, and it also puts him ahead of an actual socialist, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders. And then there's the man at No. 3, Delaware Sen. Joe Biden, hardly known as a raging lefty. Biden comes in ahead of both Feingold and Sanders as well. (Sen. John Kerry was ranked as the most liberal in 2003, another distinction that seems dubious and became a campaign issue.)

If you're wondering, Obama's rival for the Democratic presidential nomination, Sen. Hillary Clinton, is ranked 16th. That raises another question: Just how far apart are Obama and Clinton, really? The article the National Journal printed explaining its results suggests that, despite the disparity in their rankings, Obama's and Clinton's records were not that different for 2007. "In their yearlong race for the Democratic presidential nomination, Obama and Clinton have had strikingly similar voting records. Of the 267 measures on which both senators cast votes in 2007, the two differed on only 10," the authors write before going on to quote Richard Lau, a Rutgers University political scientist, as saying, "The policy differences between Clinton and Obama are so slight they are almost nonexistent to the average voter." The Journal qualifies these caveats by saying, "In a Senate in which party-line votes are the rule, the rare exceptions help to show how two senators who seemed like ideological twins in 2007 were not actually identical. Obama and Clinton were more like fraternal policy twins."

In an interview with War Room, National Journal editor Charles Green defended his magazine's analysis. "It varies from year to year who is listed as most liberal. It's rarely the same person every year ... there's some fluctuation," Green said, noting that moderate to conservative Democrats rarely end up ranked as liberal and that conservative Republicans also end up in the conservative column. As for the question of the difference between Obama and Clinton, Green said, "Are they two peas in a pod because they voted the same on 257 out of 267? Perhaps to some people, but to other people those other 10 votes where they differed help explain some of their positions."

On the Republican side, there are two remaining presidential candidates who are also members of Congress, Arizona Sen. John McCain and Texas Rep. Ron Paul. McCain missed too many votes to be included in the rankings; Paul ranked as the 178th most conservative member of the House of Representatives for the year.

So apparently, McCain made a correct statement.

Ahh...too effing bad Obama has to take some criticism.

Actually, it's only correct if you use a quite tortured and biased method of counting votes....

Cycloptichorn

Yea right...Whatever.

Re: McCain: Obama Socialist? "I Don't Know" smear


+1

Re: McCain: Obama Socialist? "I Don't Know" smear


Which means that he is a worse choice than a socialist.

So McCain was correct to say he's not sure if Obama is a socialist, because his record indicates he's worse.

The Egregious John McCain Interview
The Egregious John McCain Interview
by Robert J. Elisberg
July 22, 2008

John McCain made news last week for an interview with the Kansas City Star, noteworthy for an egregious comment.

When asked if his Democratic opponent for president was a Socialist, Sen. McCain -- apparently channeling red-baiting of the glorious 1950s -- shrugged and said, "I don't know."

Honest.

If Sen. McCain is that unperceptive with a man he works with, why should anyone trust the Republican with total strangers? At least George Bush could look in people's hearts. On the other hand, if John McCain actually knows that Barack Obama really isn't a Socialist, well... what does that say about his renowned integrity?

It's a remarkable quote, and understandable why it got all the attention in Dave Helling's interview.

But that wasn't the egregious comment.

Because Sen. McCain continued disingenuously, "All I know is his voting record, and that's what people usually judge their elected representatives by."

Forgetting for a moment that that's not remotely true -- since people judge their representatives by countless things, like their smile, their lapel pin, their spouse, the crude jokes they tell, whether they'd like to share a beer, and how disingenuous he is -- by Mr. McCain's logic, he might be a Communist mole. Or an escaped ax murderer. Or a mime. Because if all we know for sure about a representative is his voting record, then John McCain, too, could be anything.

(While I'm aware there was some satire above, I apologize for suggesting that John McCain could be a mime.)

But that wasn't Sen. McCain's egregious comment, either.

In attempting to smear Sen. Obama with red paint, Mr. McCain commented that his opponent's voting record "is more to the left than the announced socialist in the United States Senate, Bernie Sanders."

Blanket statements generally play havoc with the full truth -- as did John McCain. In fact, checking VoteView, made up of actual political scientists, Sen. Obama is only 10th most liberal - behind, among others...Bernie Sanders. Oops. In Congressional Quarterly, an actual, official record of government, it reported Barack Obama voted with George Bush 40% of the time, putting him in the middle of Democrats. Oops. By the way, the rating John McCain likely refers to is from the National Journal, which doesn't rank McCain himself -- because he missed over half the key votes. Oops.

Yet that wasn't Sen. McCain's egregious comment, either.

Because Dave Helling asks the senator about the Minutemen, a rifle-toting posse pushing for a wall across the U.S.-Mexican border. Since the vigilantes are based in McCain's home state of Arizona, Helling inquires if they're a "good thing... do they help in the immigration fight, or not?"

After another shrug, John McCain starts in, "I think they are citizens who are entitled to being engaged in the process. They're obviously very concerned about immigration." Then again, that also describes the American Nazi Party. And it doesn't address the question. So, Dave Helling tries again, "Are they helpful?" To which the senator answers, "I think that's for others to judge."

John McCain is running for president -- and he doesn't think it's for him to judge what's helpful dealing with immigration??? He's supposed to be guiding that very judgment. Not dodging it. Besides, who are these mystical "others" who are entitled to judge, but not the would-be president? Anyway, the Senator continues his answer, "I don't agree with them. But they certainly are exercising their legal rights as citizens." Of course, when a 61-year-old librarian, Carol Kreck, was exercising her legal rights by carrying a "Bush=McCain" sign to one of the senator's open meetings, his security detail had her ejected.

But still, no, that too wasn't Sen. McCain's egregious comment.

You see, near the end, John McCain starts to point out issues on which Barack Obama changed his positions. Dave Helling finally interrupts the speech, and in a soft, "Okay, okay, I know, but let's be honest here a moment" voice, says politely:

"You flip-flop a little bit, too. You flip-flop on drilling a little bit. On tax cuts....You were against the tax cuts, now you're talking about making them permanent. Isn't there flip-flopping on both sides?

To which the engineer of the Straight Talk Express acknowledges -- "Actually, no."

"No." Period. That's as emphatic as it gets. Never mind that seconds before, he explained changing his position on drilling! Adding, "I haven't changed my position on any other issue." Only to then explain - seconds after insisting there's "No" flip-flopping on his side - that his changed position on tax cuts was because, "We had to restrain spending, that's the main reason I voted against them."

Here's a good linguistic tip: just because you have a reason you changed your opinions doesn't mean you didn't change your opinions.

But "No," there is no flip-flopping on his side. None. Honestly, there was more flip-flopping in that single answer by John McCain than most people see at the dolphin show at Seaworld.

And...even that wasn't the egregious comment

This was the egregious comment -

After Sen. McCain explains his gas tax holiday suggestion, Dave Helling points out, "A lot of experts say this is not a good idea."

And this is how John McCain defends criticism of the detailed facts and specifics of his economic plan: "A lot of experts are driven to work in chauffeured limousines. A lot of experts live in Georgetown and walk to work."

Yipes.

I mean...yipes. That may be. But...they're still experts. And he's said he's not

Further, I'll bet cash money that most economic experts don't have chauffeured limousines. Name four. Most don't live in Georgetown, but across America. Though John McCain himself is chauffeured in a limousine.

And again -- they...are...experts. Even if they bicycle to work.

Of course, sometimes you have to put things in perspective. After all, John McCain's economic expert was Phil Gramm, who explained there's only a "mental recession" in our "nation of whiners." But now he's been fired, so perhaps Sen. McCain is left without guidance.

In the end, it might be hard to say which of these comments are the most egregious . But what's most noteworthy is not which one -- but that all these egregious comments weren't said over the course of weeks... but in 6 minutes and 7 seconds.