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President George W Bush backs Israeli plan for strike on Ira

 
 
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2008 10:02 am
Is this just negotiation yada yada or is Bush serious? ---BBB

From The Sunday Times - UK
July 13, 2008
President George W Bush backs Israeli plan for strike on Iran
by Uzi Mahnaimi in Washington

As Tehran tests new missiles, America believes only a show of force can deter President Ahmadinejad

President George W Bush: US officials acknowledge that no American president can afford to remain idle if Israel is threatened

President George W Bush has told the Israeli government that he may be prepared to approve a future military strike on Iranian nuclear facilities if negotiations with Tehran break down, according to a senior Pentagon official.

Despite the opposition of his own generals and widespread scepticism that America is ready to risk the military, political and economic consequences of an airborne strike on Iran, the president has given an "amber light" to an Israeli plan to attack Iran's main nuclear sites with long-range bombing sorties, the official told The Sunday Times.

"Amber means get on with your preparations, stand by for immediate attack and tell us when you're ready," the official said. But the Israelis have also been told that they can expect no help from American forces and will not be able to use US military bases in Iraq for logistical support.

Nor is it certain that Bush's amber light would ever turn to green without irrefutable evidence of lethal Iranian hostility. Tehran's test launches of medium-range ballistic missiles last week were seen in Washington as provocative and poorly judged, but both the Pentagon and the CIA concluded that they did not represent an immediate threat of attack against Israeli or US targets.

"It's really all down to the Israelis," the Pentagon official added. "This administration will not attack Iran. This has already been decided. But the president is really preoccupied with the nuclear threat against Israel and I know he doesn't believe that anything but force will deter Iran."

The official added that Israel had not so far presented Bush with a convincing military proposal. "If there is no solid plan, the amber will never turn to green," he said.

There was also resistance inside the Pentagon from officers concerned about Iranian retaliation. "The uniform people are opposed to the attack plans, mainly because they think it will endanger our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan," the source said.

Complicating the calculations in both Washington and Tel Aviv is the prospect of an incoming Democratic president who has already made it clear that he prefers negotiation to the use of force.

Senator Barack Obama's previous opposition to the war in Iraq, and his apparent doubts about the urgency of the Iranian threat, have intensified pressure on the Israeli hawks to act before November's US presidential election. "If I were an Israeli I wouldn't wait," the Pentagon official added.

The latest round of regional tension was sparked by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, which fired nine long and medium-range missiles in war game manoeuvres in the Gulf last Wednesday.

Iran's state-run media reported that one of them was a modified Shahab-3 ballistic missile, which has a claimed range of 1,250 miles and could theoretically deliver a one-ton nuclear warhead over Israeli cities. Tel Aviv is about 650 miles from western Iran. General Hossein Salami, a senior Revolutionary Guard commander, boasted that "our hands are always on the trigger and our missiles are ready for launch".

Condoleezza Rice, the US secretary of state, said she saw the launches as "evidence that the missile threat is not an imaginary one", although the impact of the Iranian stunt was diminished on Thursday when it became clear that a photograph purporting to show the missiles being launched had been faked.

The one thing that all sides agree on is that any strike by either Iran or Israel would trigger a catastrophic round of retaliation that would rock global oil markets, send the price of petrol soaring and wreck the progress of the US military effort in Iraq.

Abdalla Salem El-Badri, secretary-general of Opec, the oil producers' consortium, said last week that a military conflict involving Iran would see an "unlimited" rise in prices because any loss of Iranian production ?- or constriction of shipments through the Strait of Hormuz ?- could not be replaced. Iran is Opec's second-largest producer after Saudi Arabia.

Equally worrying for Bush would be the impact on the US mission in Iraq, which after years of turmoil has seen gains from the military "surge" of the past few months, and on American operations in the wider region. A senior Iranian official said yesterday that Iran would destroy Israel and 32 American military bases in the Middle East in response to any attack.

Yet US officials acknowledge that no American president can afford to remain idle if Israel is threatened. How genuine the Iranian threat is was the subject of intense debate last week, with some analysts arguing that Iran might have a useable nuclear weapon by next spring and others convinced that President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is engaged in a dangerous game of bluffing ?- mainly to impress a domestic Iranian audience that is struggling with economic setbacks and beginning to question his leadership.

Among the sceptics is Kenneth Katzman, a former CIA analyst and author of a book on the Revolutionary Guard. "I don't subscribe to the view that Iran is in a position to inflict devastating damage on anyone," said Katzman, who is best known for warning shortly before 9/11 that terrorists were planning to attack America.

"The Revolutionary Guards have always underperformed militarily," he said. "Their equipment is quite inaccurate if not outright inoperable. Those missile launches were more like putting up a ?'beware of the dog' sign. They want everyone to think that if you mess with them, you will get bitten."

A former adviser to Rice noted that Ahmadinejad's confrontational attitude had earned him powerful enemies among Iran's religious leadership. Professor Shai Feldman, director of Middle East studies at Brandeis University, said the Iranian government was getting "clobbered" because of global economic strains. "His [Ahmadinejad's] failed policies have made Iran more vulnerable to sanctions and people close to the mullahs have decided he's a liability," he said.

In Israel, Ehud Olmert, the prime minister, has his own domestic problems with a corruption scandal that threatens to unseat him and the media have been rife with speculation that he might order an attack on Iran to distract attention from his difficulties. According to one of his closest friends, Olmert recently warned him that "in three months' time it will be a different Middle East".

Yet even the most hawkish officials acknowledge that Israel would face what would arguably be the most challenging military mission of its 60-year existence.

"No one here is talking about more than delaying the [nuclear] programme," said the Pentagon source. He added that Israel would need to set back the Iranians by at least five years for an attack to be considered a success.

Even that may be beyond Israel's competence if it has to act alone. Obvious targets would include Iran's Isfahan plant, where uranium ore is converted into gas, the Natanz complex where this gas is used to enrich uranium in centrifuges and the plutonium-producing Arak heavy water plant. But Iran is known to have scattered other elements of its nuclear programme in underground facilities around the country. Neither US nor Israeli intelligence is certain that it knows where everything is.

"Maybe the Israelis could start off the attack and have us finish it off," Katzman added. "And maybe that has been their intention all along. But in terms of the long-term military campaign that would be needed to permanently suppress Iran's nuclear programme, only the US is perceived as having that capability right now."
-----------------------------------------------------

Additional reporting: Tony Allen-Mills in New York
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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 1,291 • Replies: 38
No top replies

 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2008 04:07 pm
Israel is a sovereign nation.
They don't need the permission of the US or any other international body to act in their own self defense.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2008 10:46 am
mysteryman wrote:
Israel is a sovereign nation.
They don't need the permission of the US or any other international body to act in their own self defense.


O.K., they are a sovereign nation. However, I believe they like to do things with the approval of the U.S., since, in my opinion, they have too few friends in the world to treat the friendship of the U.S. in a less than grateful manner. Or, as the saying goes, do not bite the hand that feeds you, so to speak, in my opinion.

I do not know how Israel can deal with Iran by itself, unless they have a sling and like dealing with Goliaths?
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2008 11:02 am
Foofie wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Israel is a sovereign nation.
They don't need the permission of the US or any other international body to act in their own self defense.


O.K., they are a sovereign nation. However, I believe they like to do things with the approval of the U.S., since, in my opinion, they have too few friends in the world to treat the friendship of the U.S. in a less than grateful manner. Or, as the saying goes, do not bite the hand that feeds you, so to speak, in my opinion.

I do not know how Israel can deal with Iran by itself, unless they have a sling and like dealing with Goliaths?


Isreal attacked Irans nuclear plants in 1981 and they can do it again.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2008 11:24 am
mysteryman wrote:
Israel is a sovereign nation.
They don't need the permission of the US or any other international body to act in their own self defense.


Correct!

woiyo wrote:


Isreal attacked Irans nuclear plants in 1981 and they can do it again.


And they will do it again - count on it.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2008 11:40 am
woiyo wrote:
Isreal attacked Irans nuclear plants in 1981 and they can do it again.


You don't really think that Israel attacked an Iranian nuclear plant, right? You just refer to "it" as Iran, I guess...
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2008 11:46 am
old europe wrote:
woiyo wrote:
Isreal attacked Irans nuclear plants in 1981 and they can do it again.


You don't really think that Israel attacked an Iranian nuclear plant, right? You just refer to "it" as Iran, I guess...


Israel bombed Osiraq nuclear power plant outside Baghdad in 1981 and they can easily bomb targets in Iran.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2008 11:51 am
H2O_MAN wrote:
old europe wrote:
woiyo wrote:
Isreal attacked Irans nuclear plants in 1981 and they can do it again.


You don't really think that Israel attacked an Iranian nuclear plant, right? You just refer to "it" as Iran, I guess...


Israel bombed Osiraq nuclear power plant outside Baghdad in 1981 and they can easily bomb targets in Iran.


Indeed. Glad you managed to find that out.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2008 11:57 am
old europe wrote:
H2O_MAN wrote:
old europe wrote:
woiyo wrote:
Isreal attacked Irans nuclear plants in 1981 and they can do it again.


You don't really think that Israel attacked an Iranian nuclear plant, right? You just refer to "it" as Iran, I guess...


Israel bombed Osiraq nuclear power plant outside Baghdad in 1981 and they can easily bomb targets in Iran.


Indeed. Glad you managed to find that out.


At least he got the first three letters (I R A) correct :wink:
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2008 11:59 am
Certainly an accomplishment.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2008 01:47 pm
H2O_MAN wrote:
[..........]
Israel bombed Osiraq nuclear power plant outside Baghdad in 1981 and they can easily bomb targets in Iran.


H2O Man - either you've no access to maps or you're entirely unfamiliar with aircraft payloads including ordnance.

Israeli aircraft can only reach Iran by (a) overflying Turkey, which has alreadly denied any such permission, or, (b) by flying through airspace controlled by us, and the chairman of the joint chiefs has already gone over to Tel Aviv to tell them to forget it.

If you had submarine-launched missiles in mind, see point (b) above: nothing bigger than a shrimp moves in the Persian Gulf without our carrier groups noticing - and maybe not even a shrimp. Please check basic facts before posting.
0 Replies
 
OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2008 02:05 pm
i keep watching this interactive map and wondering how the **** israel came into existence anyways.



im serious.



can i get some weapons and go blow some people away and start my own country?



this world is fucked.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2008 02:45 pm
High Seas wrote:
H2O_MAN wrote:
[..........]
Israel bombed Osiraq nuclear power plant outside Baghdad in 1981 and they can easily bomb targets in Iran.


H2O Man - either you've no access to maps or you're entirely unfamiliar with aircraft payloads including ordnance.




High seas - I have maps, understand aircraft payloads, ordnance and range
with in-flight refueling, but go ahead and lay it out for us in great detail.

Allow me to get things off the ground for you ...

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2913/499/400/iaf-map.jpg

http://www.theipinionsjournal.com/uploaded_images/israeliran-737751.jpg
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2008 04:08 pm
H20 Man - one thing is certain from your maps: it's you don't have the least clue where the Iranian nuclear reactor is located. And if, by any chance, you know the intentions of the Russian engineers building it, don't let the rest of us in suspense about them - we, too, would like to know what the Russians plan to do if their reactor is bombed.

You, Sir, know 00.00 whereof you speak, or to whom. Get a clue before you find yourself in deep trouble. See you when that one has sunk in, if ever.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2008 04:10 pm
High Seas - you are wasting our time here with your petty comments - move on.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2008 04:18 pm
H2O_MAN wrote:
High Seas - you are wasting our time here with your petty comments - move on.


LOL - I'm wasting the time of "WE the Queen of England", only one who writes referring to her person as "we". Well H2O Man, I, personally, am posting from a Republic. Where YOU are posting from is your business, but messing with targeting coordinates is not.

The Iranian reactor isn't anywhere near your stupid arrows - check your sources and question them on the disinformation they disseminate. Bye Smile
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2008 04:24 pm
High Seas wrote:


The Iranian reactor isn't anywhere near your stupid arrows - Bye Smile


No **** Sherlock!

Are you so stupid as to think "the" plans are readily available on the internet? Rolling Eyes

Cheers!
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2008 04:26 pm
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00220/L-nuclear385_220650a.jpg
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2008 04:27 pm
H2O Man - you are never to bother me again. Ever.


Quote:
The Tehran declaration strengthened Moscow's hostility to any attempt at a military solution. It also offered support for Iran by asserting the right of any country that had signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty to develop peaceful nuclear energy "without discrimination". Tehran insists that its nuclear programme is purely for civil purposes to generate electricity.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jul, 2008 04:32 pm
Am I bugging you?

The little spiderweb outside the square are air defense.

http://www.yonitheblogger.com/Satellite%20Iran%20nukes.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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