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Iraq, al Qaeda, 9/11 link?

 
 
Brand X
 
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 05:44 am
Memo shows Iraq, Iran tried to contact bin Laden


By Eli J. Lake
UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL



The Taliban claimed in a 1997 meeting with U.S. officials that it had blocked attempts by both Iraq and Iran to contact Osama bin Laden, according to a previously confidential State Department memo made public yesterday.
The memo says that the assistant secretary of state, Karl Inderfurth, was told on Dec. 7, 1997, by the Taliban's acting minister of mines and industry, Armad Jan, that his government "had stopped allowing [bin Laden] to give public interviews and had frustrated Iranian and Iraqi efforts to contact him."
Contacted yesterday, Mr. Inderfurth said he did not believe the Taliban claim was credible at the time, and that he had no recollection of Taliban officials mentioning Iraqi or Iranian attempts to meet bin Laden in the following 19 meetings he would attend with the de facto Afghan regime for the next four years.
"I never saw any evidence in anything I was doing where there were any Iraqi connections," said Mr. Inderfurth, who was the Clinton administration's senior State Department official for South Asia.
"The Iraqis were not to my knowledge, players in the Afghan conflict. Almost every other country in the region was."
The memo, however, discloses a previously unreported link, or at least an Iraqi attempt to establish a link, with bin Laden, the mastermind of the September 11 attacks on the United States.
The document was published by the National Security Archives, an independent institute located at George Washington University. It specializes in using the Freedom of Information Act and other legal means to obtain previously classified material for public release.
The Taliban conveyed its 1997 message to the State Department in the context of a broader pitch to improve ties with Washington.
During the meeting, the Taliban representatives requested agricultural assistance, recommended the United States reopen its embassy in Kabul and said they had been instructed by Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar to present a paper that opened with these words:
"The Islamic State of Afghanistan wants friendly relations with the U.S. and all countries of the world based on mutual respect and non-interference."
In February 2003, prior to the U.S. invasion of Iraq, Secretary of State Colin L. Powell laid out evidence of an Iraq link to bin Laden, claiming that Iraqi intelligence agents had provided training in document forgery to al Qaeda.
He also spoke of links between the terrorist group and Iraq that went back to the early 1990s when bin Laden took refuge in Sudan.
In that presentation, Mr. Powell said, "A senior defector, one of Saddam's former intelligence chiefs in Europe, says Saddam sent his agents to Afghanistan sometime in the mid-1990s to provide training to al Qaeda members on document forgery."
The Taliban's claim that they had been aware of and sought to stop Iraqi efforts to contact bin Laden now appears to back up Mr. Powell's Feb. 5 presentation.
Since before the Iraq war, administration assertions of a link between Iraq and bin Laden have been widely criticized as exaggerated.
"I'm sure some Iraqi official met with some al Qaeda somewhere, but that does not demonstrate that two are working closely together," said Daniel Byman, an assistant professor at Georgetown University's School of Foreign Service.
He pointed out that the United States has held captive several senior Iraqi officials who would have knowledge of any pre-Iraqi war connection with al Qaeda and yet no new evidence has been made public.
"We have a lot of senior al Qaeda folks captive and there are reasons we want to publicize these links," he said.
For example, Farouk Hijazi, a former senior Iraqi intelligence agent and ambassador to Tunisia who was reported to have met bin Laden in December 1998, has been in U.S. custody since late April.
But with the Bush administration's latest approach to the United Nations, much of the concern appears to have shifted to the presence of militant Islamists fighting in Iraq, in addition to secular Ba'ath Party operatives loyal to Saddam.
U.S. officials believe al Qaeda is active in Iraq, especially in some of the suicide attacks against Americans and other targets.
"We are now starting to see terrorists come into Iraq who could represent, and we are quite confident represent al Qaeda elements," Mr. Powell told Al Jazeera satellite television in an interview this week.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 05:56 am
Seems a bit too murky to draw any conclusions.

Here's the linkto the source your excerpt cites.

Their contact, in any event, certainly doesn't seem to be nearly as successful as our contact:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/handshake300.jpg
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 06:13 am
But don't you see Pdiddie, we were only assisting Saddam in making more gas to kill Iranians, while those bastard Iraqis were helping make forged documents. FORGED DOCUMENTS. egad, man, the horror!!!
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 06:16 am
Laughing
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 06:35 am
This:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/handshake300.jpg

Led to this:

http://www.griffith-h.schools.nsw.edu.au/bwall2.jpg

Really feel it wasn't worth it?
0 Replies
 
mamajuana
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 06:42 am
What does the second picture show? Can't make out anything.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 06:49 am
McGentrix is playing a bit of six degrees of separation, and I'd be interested in seeing the links between one and six.

I just don't think those dots connect.
0 Replies
 
mamajuana
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 07:02 am
Thanks, PD - I still don't know what the second picture shows. I understand about the six degrees - and this is a stretch. But it looks more like a crowd of fans in front of a Spanish bullfight ring waiting to get in. Whereas Rumsfeld shaking hands with Hussein - that's plain.

here's another interesting interview of Eli Lake, by and for the NPR:



Interview: Eli Lake Discusses His Article In The New Republic About The Fact That The Bush Administration Is Getting Competing Intelligence Reports On Iraq That May Be Confusing The Situation

All Things Considered: September 18, 2002

Iraq Intelligence


JOHN YDSTIE, host:

As President Bush weighs the possibility of military action against Iraq, he's getting competing intelligence reports that may be confusing the situation. That's the conclusion of an article in the September 23rd issue of The New Republic, written by UPI State Department correspondent Eli Lake. Mr. Lake joins us in our studios. Thanks for being with us.

Mr. ELI LAKE (UPI State Department Correspondent): Thank you for having me.

YDSTIE: You write that the CIA has actually been edged out of its primary role of synthesizing intelligence on Iraq for the president by another group controlled by the Pentagon and hawks within the administration. Explain what's happened here.

Mr. LAKE: Well, I would say that a circle of neoconservatives who are not just in the Pentagon but also in the vice president's office--some are in the State Department--have essentially done their own analysis of intelligence information and come to very different conclusions than the Central Intelligence Agency.

YDSTIE: And how would you characterize this competing intelligence assessment by the Pentagon and by the hawks?

Mr. LAKE: Well, I mean, I think that on a couple of areas, the neoconservative wing of the Bush Cabinet believes that there will be massive defections that will be very likely in the event of a US military action or even an insurrection. They believe that the opposition is far stronger than the CIA takes it to be. And finally, I think that they would definitely say that there are extensive links with senior members of the al-Qaeda organization in Iraq and a part of Iraq that Saddam Hussein controls, and I'd say at this point that the CIA is unconvinced of that.

YDSTIE: And how is this group getting its intelligence? I mean, where does it get it from?

Mr. LAKE: It gets its intelligence, in some cases, just from raw intercepts that the CIA would use to analyze, but in other cases, it bases a lot of its estimates on the testimony of defectors who have come through with the principal opposition group the US has been supporting since 1999 called the Iraqi National Congress, which has had a long history of being out of favor with the Central Intelligence Agency.

YDSTIE: And it puts much more stock in these defectors and their stories than the CIA does.

Mr. LAKE: Absolutely the case. I think the CIA believes that many of the defectors have been coached, and that in often cases, that the INC or the Iraqi National Congress is politicizing the information, which is to say that the Iraqi National Congress, among other things, has also been one of the chief lobbyists in Washington to advocate a regime change policy against Saddam Hussein. And, you know, in addition to that, they're also providing these defectors. So I think the CIA would say that they add that up and they don't put much stock in these defectors.

YDSTIE: And yet, the stories of some of these defectors have been corroborated.

Mr. LAKE: I would say that the stories have, in many cases, been corroborated and the...

YDSTIE: Let's talk about the corroboration.

Mr. LAKE: Sure.

YDSTIE: In fact, there's one defector that came out who suggested that Saddam was trying to create nuclear weapons in a sort of diffuse manner and that he would require aluminum tubes...

Mr. LAKE: Yes. Khidir Hamza.

YDSTIE: ...to create this--right. And as it turns out, in fact, recently we found that there are shipments of these tubes that have been occurring, right?

Mr. LAKE: This is an example of a defector who definitely got it right, and the CIA ended up having to revise its estimates.

YDSTIE: Not surprisingly, the CIA is critical of this alternative group that's providing intelligence to the president.

Mr. LAKE: They believe that as the intelligence professionals that they have the training and analytical skills to present an unbiased, non-political version of the intelligence to the president from which he can make these sorts of decisions.

YDSTIE: And how would you say the CIA assesses the possibility of success with military action against Iraq?

Mr. LAKE: Well, I want to make it very clear that I don't have their top-secret documents and I haven't seen--so from what I've gathered, I'd say that the CIA believes that there are no guarantees; that it's not as absolutely sure that you would see a lot of defections. They don't believe that there are links to al-Qaeda cells in Iraq or anything that's really significant. Another thing I would say about it is that the Central Intelligence Agency is not entirely sure that the opposition is going to be as effective as the hawks believe.

YDSTIE: So the CIA view would be that military action may not be a good idea at this point.

Mr. LAKE: Well, the CIA doesn't make policy recommendations. I think that they would present information on which to make those policy decisions. But what they're saying is that they don't believe that some of the things that the hawks in their analysis say would make the war with Iraq easy are necessarily there. So in that respect, I guess you could say that the CIA thinks it'll be a lot harder than some other people.

YDSTIE: Thanks very much, Mr. Lake.

Mr. LAKE: Thank you.

YDSTIE: Eli Lake is the State Department correspondent for UPI. His article on this subject titled "Need to Know" appears in the September 23rd issue of The New Republic.

Copyright ©2002 National Public Radio®.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 07:09 am
It is a picture of the Berlin Wall being ripped down because communism in Russia was crushed and the cold war won. A direct result of US efforts.

I am surprised by your apparent ignorance.
0 Replies
 
mamajuana
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2003 07:42 am
Well, like the man said - six degrees of separation doesn't necessarily make a clear or sensible link.

Now, if you really meant this to be meaningful, why not have it plain and simple?

The connection is, indeed, murky. All around.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2003 05:30 pm
McGentrix wrote:
It is a picture of the Berlin Wall being ripped down because communism in Russia was crushed and the cold war won. A direct result of US efforts.

I am surprised by your apparent ignorance.



How can you look at the world today and say anything was won.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2003 05:46 pm
How can you call the result of internal fianacial collapse, a trend that began in 1919, a result of US presure?
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2003 06:53 pm
hobitbob wrote:
How can you call the result of internal fianacial collapse, a trend that began in 1919, a result of US presure?


That was a big part of it, the other part was letting the Soviet public in on the dirty little secret, communism wasn't working. Through the Voice of America, Radio Free Europe enough information about freedom got through to the poplulation to start a ground swell against the Kremlin. Pressure for change started there, and political pressure from us finally brought about change, one wouldn't have worked without the other. But whatever you do, don't give America any credit for it. Call it patriotism if you want, but if I felt the way you do, and was so uptight and negative about everything that America has ever done, I would move out of the country.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2003 07:15 pm
brand x wrote:
Call it patriotism if you want, but if I felt the way you do, and was so uptight and negative about everything that America has ever done, I would move out of the country.

Have you ever considered that true patriotism is attempting to fix things that are wrong with one's society?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2003 10:54 am
No. That is not "true patriotism". Dissent is not patriotism no matter what Al Franken would have you believe. Neither is saying "love it or leave it".
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2003 11:01 am
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.
Samuel Johnson
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2003 11:06 am
patriotism is a happy how now town, and kitties.
sofia
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2003 11:10 am
Make that Maine Coons (like the one sitting on my lap cutting off circulation to my legs, and trying to help me type).
0 Replies
 
wolf
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Sep, 2003 02:21 pm
GHWBush-al Qaeda-9/11

A causal chain.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 05:46 pm
How did it come about that the Bush Administration faltered in its assessment of WMD evidence? How come new 'evidence' of Saddam-Al-Qaeda links keeps popping up from the Pentagon or Cheney's office, only to be dubbed "inaccurate" by the CIA?

Below an excerpt from a perhaps definitive portrait of Dick Cheney that explains a lot … Viewing the full text probably requires registration, but its a good piece, though! This is just the part that focuses on evidence, intelligence and OVP/CIA/State/Pentagon relations. (Emphasis added)

The Radical - What Dick Cheney Really Believes

Quote:
[..]

Among Cheney's aides, resentment of the CIA went far beyond a healthy skepticism of fallible intelligence analysts and an Agency with a decidedly mixed record. [..] For years, Libby and Hannah in particular had believed the Agency harbored a politically motivated animus against the INC and irresponsibly discounted intelligence reports from defectors the INC had brought forward. "This had been a fight for such a long period of time, where people were so dug in," reflects a friend of one of Cheney's senior staffers. The OVP had been studying issues like Iraq for so many years that it often simply did not accept that contrary information provided by intelligence analysts-- especially CIA analysts--could be correct. As one former colleague of many OVP officials puts it, "They so believed that the CIA were wrong, they were like, 'We want to show these fuckers that they are wrong.'" [..]

From the OVP's perspective, the CIA--with its caveat-riddled position on Iraqi WMD and its refusal to connect Saddam and Al Qaeda--was an outright obstacle to the invasion of Iraq. And, as Cheney and his staff remembered so vividly from their Pentagon days, the CIA was often wrong on the biggest security questions. So Cheney reverted to the intelligence-gathering method he had perfected at Halliburton: He outsourced. [..]

But Cheney's office didn't escape the government bubble so much as create a new one. Any doubts expressed by the intelligence community about the OVP's sources, especially Chalabi, were ignored. [..] Cheney himself became an increasingly vocal Chalabi advocate. [..] In a rare burst of open influence, Cheney "weighed in, in a really big way," according to a former NSC staffer. "He said, 'We're getting ready to go to war, and we're nickel-and-diming the INC at a time when they're providing us with unique intelligence on Iraqi WMD.'" To the OVP, the CIA's hostility to such "unique" INC intelligence was evidence of the Agency's political corruption. Before long, "there was something of a willingness to give [INC- provided intelligence] greater weight" than that offered by the intelligence community, says the former administration official.

Chalabi was not the only source Hannah used to get alternative information to Cheney. [..] By late 2002, Luti's Iraq desk became the Office of Special Plans (OSP), tasked with working on issues related to the war effort. In addition to actual planning, the OSP provided memoranda to Pentagon officials recycling the most damaging--and often the most spurious--intelligence about Iraq's Al Qaeda connections and the most hopeful predictions about liberated Iraq. In the fall of 2002, one of the memos stated as fact that September 11 hijacker Mohamed Atta had met in Prague with an Iraqi intelligence agent months before the attacks--a claim the FBI and CIA had debunked months earlier after an exhaustive investigation. [..]

The OVP didn't just generate this information for themselves. They tried to pump it back into the intelligence pipeline on visits to Langley. "Scooter and the vice president come out there loaded with crap from OSP, reams of information from Chalabi's people" on both terrorism and WMD, according to an ex-CIA analyst. One of the OVP's principal interlocutors was Alan Foley, director of the CIA's Nonproliferation Center. Cheney's office pelted Foley with questions about Iraq's nuclear weapons program-- especially about Saddam's alleged attempts to purchase uranium from Niger. According to a colleague, Foley "pushed back" by "stressing the implausibility of it." Months earlier, after all, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson had gone to Niger at the behest of the CIA--a visit that had itself been instigated by questions raised by Cheney in an Agency briefing-- and concluded that the sale almost certainly did not occur. But Cheney kept pressing, and it took its toll on Foley. "He was bullied and intimidated," says a friend of Foley.

In the view of many at Langley, the OVP wasn't simply highlighting what it considered weaknesses in CIA analysis. Rather, it was trying to stifle information that it considered counterproductive to the case for war. The tone of the questioning, some analysts felt, was less inquisitive than hostile. "It was done along the lines of: 'What's wrong with you bunch of assholes? You don't know what's going on, you're horribly biased, you're a bunch of pinkos,'" says a retired analyst close to his active-duty colleagues. Some analysts saw the questioning as a method of diverting overtaxed CIA analysts from producing undesired intelligence product. On one occasion, officials asked analysts hard at work on Iraq to produce a paper on the history of the British occupation of Mesopotamia following World War I. The request might seem reasonable on the surface--after all, an occupation ought to be informed by precedent. But policymakers in the OVP and the DOD could just as easily have picked up histories of Iraq from the library and let the CIA go back to work on classified analysis. But, after enduring the questioning for months, an ex-analyst explains, "It gets to the point where you just don't want to fight it anymore."

Eventually the OVP's alternative analyses found their way into the administration's public case for war. The distance between the OVP and the intelligence community was greatest on terrorism, and the OVP was determined to win. Libby wrote a draft of Colin Powell's February speech to the U.N. Security Council that outlined a far different threat than the secretary of State envisioned. "[The OVP] really wanted to make it a speech mostly about the link to terrorism," says one former NSC official. Although Powell and his staff balked at the most controversial--and poorly substantiated--details, Libby still provided the initial outline for the speech.

Cheney's own public statements went far beyond what the CIA and other intelligence agencies had verified. In an August 2002 speech in Nashville, Cheney asserted, "The Iraqi regime has in fact been very busy enhancing its capabilities in the field of chemical and biological agents, and they continue to pursue the nuclear program they began so many years ago." The intelligence community was in fact deeply divided over whether the nuclear program was again active, and a classified DIA report a month later indicated that the Agency had "no reliable information" about Iraq's chemical weapons program. But these doubts never seeped into Cheney's public statements. Days before the invasion, Cheney told NBC's Tim Russert on "Meet the Press," "We know [Saddam is] out trying once again to produce nuclear weapons, and we know that he has a longstanding relationship with ... the Al Qaeda organization." By contrast, the intelligence agencies assessed that, despite some apparently fruitless contact between Saddam's henchmen and Al Qaeda terrorists in Sudan in the mid-'90s, Iraq and Osama bin Laden were two unrelated threats.

The OVP never considered that it could be wrong, despite the fact that none of its senior members had intelligence training. [..] On Iraq, the CIA had what is known as the "red cell," a team of four highly regarded retired analysts who conducted alternative assessments of Iraq's ties to terrorism. The OVP, by contrast, put its judgments through no comparable wringer. Perhaps that is why so much of what they embraced was wrong. On the ground in Iraq today, there is no evidence that Saddam reconstituted his nuclear weapons program; according to chief American arms-hunter David Kay's interim report, the evidence of any ongoing chemical or biological weapons programs is fragmentary at best. A classified study prepared by the National Intelligence Council in early 2003 found that only one of Chalabi's defectors could be considered credible, The New Republic has learned. A more recent investigation undertaken by the DIA has found that practically all the intelligence provided by the INC was worthless.

[..]
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