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Tim Russert, 1950-2008

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2008 10:53 am
What is all this about "he was so young"?....he was 58, not young at all.

I found his over-personalization of the news annoying and it was not helpful in a society that tends to over personalize everything, but on balance he was a good journalist and I think a good guy. He was great in the Sunday talk show format, one of the best ever.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2008 11:59 am
up yours buddy. I'm 59 and I'm still a young un. Cool
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2008 12:41 pm
I'm sorry for the offense the following may give some posters.

This is what commenter "Oregon Activist" wrote on the TPM thread about Russert's death, in three separate posts, in response to others:

Quote:
It's one thing to express sympathy for family, friends and colleagues. They are surely devastated and he will leave an unfathomable hole in their lives. I am certain that he worked long hard hours and did his best as he saw it.

But, I cannot stand to see over and over and over "the best journalist in America" sentimentally awarded to someone who had no hard questions for George Bush, Dick Cheney or the architects of war, who warned Karl Rove and protected him in the Plame affair. Someone whom the White House identified as their best forum because they can control the message. That cannot be the best we aspire to. That cannot be our standard of integrity.

Yes, honor him for his humor, his long hours of work, his energy. Please don't lower the standard to where he is "the best" and please, don't compare him to Murrow or others who truly stood up to power.

---

People are practicing the traditional American rite of praising the dead - no matter what the truth is or how false the praise. It's like when Nixon died. It's a ritual. [..] If you remind people of his role in the Plame affair and his tip off to Rove that kept Rove out of trouble, you are a bad person. That's the American way. You can do daily harm to the cause of journalism, but die and overnight you become Murrow, even though you were more of a Winchell the day before.

That said, this is sudden, shocking and clearly difficult for his friends, family and coworkers who deserve sympathetic understanding.

---

I don't mind the folks at NBC going overboard in their praise - or even Josh and the other people in journalism who knew him. That's as it should be.

It's the torrent of praise from the rest of us - the news watchers, the news consumers. We were the ones his cozy relationship with his sources damaged. We were the ones he misled. If you want to see true over-the-top rites of mourning, read the comments at the New York Times where soon they will begin petitioning for sainthood. Still, even here among people who did not support the war, they seems to be this automatic erasure of the incredibly poor work he did during that time.

It's a personal tragedy, not a national tragedy. It's sad that one of the preeminent political junkies won't get to cover such an historic election. Sad for him. For us, well perhaps then we won't have bulldogging questions about Farrakhan for Obama and silence about Hagee for McCain, just to give one example of his "fairness" and 'integrity".

[..] It would be nice (I am not hopeful) that Meet the Press won't be the friendly forum that Dick Cheney always found it to be in the past when he starts dragging out his lies. It would be wonderful if conversations and information from sources were no longer automatically off the record unless specifically moved on the record.

Meet the Press is a venerable and respected national resource - and he helped make it that way, but he also tarnished it with his coziness with those in power.


This is what I replied, FWIW:
---

Very well said. Thank you. Here's hoping your posts will not be among those deleted.

[I wrote that b/c TPM apparently scrubbed all the negative comments in the top half of the page]

Maybe it's a cultural difference, but where I'm from no bad is said, of course, about the dead at their funeral, at the gatherings of those who were near and dear about him. But when it comes to figures of public importance, newspaper obituaries and public discussions about his death are places for a balanced and honest evaluation of their life, the role they played, for better of course but also for worse.

I found reading through the tributes to Russert an weirdly estranging experience: was this the same man they were talking of? Of course he died at a cruelly young age. I do not doubt that he was a good person. He obviously worked as hard as anyone can be expected to, and did so in the service of the profession he clearly relished. In all of those senses, his death is sad and cruel.

But here, suddenly, is conjured up this portrait of a titan of critical journalism, an embodiment of scrupled integrity -- and this about the same man who has been widely vilified this year, the last few years, for his very failures at exactly these professional values? To my sensitivities, there are fine lines between paying tribute and lionising, and between being respectful and being sanctimonious. And the way these tributes turned Russert into a hero of scrupled, critical journalism was just slightly discombobulating. Russert?

Maybe it is a cultural difference. And maybe it has something to do with our mediatized age, where the people we see on our TV screens come to feel closer to many than their own neighbours or even colleagues - and are certainly listened to more often. The people that populate our TV landscape are invested with the kind of emotional loyalty and reaction that used to be reserved for people that, well, you actually knew. The puzzling hysteria over Princess Diana remains the prototypical and extreme case study of this (though it's true that royal families are a bit of an exception in any case in their emotional hold on people).

The village-like universe of the self-contained media and punditry world also probably has something to do with it. They all know each other closely. In the modern age of media consolidation and concentration, where it's just a couple of companies that control the mass media and the focus of political news is more than ever all concentrated in the Beltway, they all work round about the same place. It's a self-referential world, and of course the major media anchors and minor pundits who worked with or alongside Russert will be in grief now, emotional and moved.

But this village reality is then projected onto the national audience, and now every viewer and listener is supposed to feel that Russert is not just a hard-working professional who did not deserve to die this young, but a man who loomed large in this world - whose death, as imani3000 wrote, is treated as the single most important thing that happened in the whole world this day.

You can't begrudge Russert's family the tributes, and I hope they are a comfort. But for the rest of us, there are warning signs here [..].
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2008 12:51 pm
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
this is really tragic but let's consider this. Tim Russert died on the job, doing what he loved..... instead of battling cancer or something else, puking up his teeth from chemo or wired up in a hospital bed.

He also, by all accounts... lived a life of purpose and kindness that few have equaled. Maybe at 58, he had already crammed his alloted time in..... I'd rather see "Used Up" on my tombstone than "Died after a long battle with colon cancer". This guy lived.... and might I add productively and positively, more in 58 years than many of us accomplish in 78.... so happy trails dude.


Well said, BPB!

Hawkeye:
58 years sure is young considering that the avg N. American male's life span is 73. I'd rather be 73 than 58 when my number is called...wouldn't you?

What I'm finding sad is the part about his son just graduating. That chokes me up ... too bad he didn't get to see his kid getting established a bit. However, when it's your time to go, there's no "give-me-another-year" stuff, except in movies like "heaven can wait". He reached the top of his profession and was a successful author, too. Quite a few esteemed accomplishments for a literary and media person.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2008 01:09 pm
At 58 Russert was just entering the period where men start to die off. It is the very beginning off the curve, but normal.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr53/nvsr53_05acc.pdf
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2008 01:12 pm
nimh wrote:
I found reading through the tributes to Russert an weirdly estranging experience: was this the same man they were talking of? Of course he died at a cruelly young age. I do not doubt that he was a good person. He obviously worked as hard as anyone can be expected to, and did so in the service of the profession he clearly relished. In all of those senses, his death is sad and cruel.

But here, suddenly, is conjured up this portrait of a titan of critical journalism, an embodiment of scrupled integrity -- and this about the same man who has been widely vilified this year, the last few years, for his very failures at exactly these professional values? To my sensitivities, there are fine lines between paying tribute and lionising, and between being respectful and being sanctimonious. And the way these tributes turned Russert into a hero of scrupled, critical journalism was just slightly discombobulating. Russert?

He was certainly no Edward R. Murrow.
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2008 01:23 pm
What a difficult task any journalist must have had as far as writing and commenting following in the wake of post-9/11 tragedy. He may not have done things the way some of us (more radicals) had hoped, but I don't see anyone having done it better than he did. Can you think of someone that did in post 9/11?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2008 04:07 pm
Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Jonah Goldberg, Michael Savage, Matt Drudge, G Gordon Liddy, Rush Limbaugh, Ari Fleischer, Tony Snow, Scott McC, ...
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2008 05:04 pm
Ragman wrote:
Can you think of someone that did in post 9/11?

The NYT alone has had Bob Herbert and Paul Krugman, right?
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2008 11:15 am
BBB
We've been witnessing a traditional "Irish Wake" with the non-stop exagerated praising of Tim Russert on TV. He was very effective in many ways and deficient in others. He was a nice guy and loyal friend. But he ain't a saint. Making an Idol of Russert will not erase the terrible mistakes the medias' journalists made during the Bush administration.

One thing I've found puzzling is that during three days of comments, no one has said anything about Russert's mother other than she is dead. Why all the emphasis on the males in the family?

BBB
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2008 11:50 am
Re: BBB
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
We've been witnessing a traditional "Irish Wake" with the non-stop exagerated praising of Tim Russert on TV. He was very effective in many ways and deficient in others. He was a nice guy and loyal friend. But he ain't a saint. Making an Idol of Russert will not erase the terrible mistakes the medias' journalists made during the Bush administration.

One thing I've found puzzling is that during three days of comments, no one has said anything about Russert's mother other than she is dead. Why all the emphasis on the males in the family?

BBB
Perhaps you should start a slanderous thread that identifies him as a scumbag, and then spam it with every idiotic opinion piece you can find. The man was a bit soft, in a Larry King kind of way, so what? He was gentle enough to attract the guests and straightforward enough to attract an audience. That's what he did for a living and he did it better than most. You should keep your irrational ramblings to yourself, and look better for it.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2008 12:05 pm
He wasn't the least bit soft. He was always a gentleman but surgical in his questioning. Russert was as good as it gets. Just watch the montage of clips of him pounding pols on their intentions to run for president. He didn't let them wriggle out with a non-answer. Russert's genius was that he was able to get the answers without making himself the focus of the interview.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2008 12:08 pm
Re: BBB
OCCOM BILL wrote:
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
We've been witnessing a traditional "Irish Wake" with the non-stop exagerated praising of Tim Russert on TV. He was very effective in many ways and deficient in others. He was a nice guy and loyal friend. But he ain't a saint. Making an Idol of Russert will not erase the terrible mistakes the medias' journalists made during the Bush administration.

One thing I've found puzzling is that during three days of comments, no one has said anything about Russert's mother other than she is dead. Why all the emphasis on the males in the family?

BBB
Perhaps you should start a slanderous thread that identifies him as a scumbag, and then spam it with every idiotic opinion piece you can find. The man was a bit soft, in a Larry King kind of way, so what? He was gentle enough to attract the guests and straightforward enough to attract an audience. That's what he did for a living and he did it better than most. You should keep your irrational ramblings to yourself, and look better for it.


I can see if there is a disagreement about whther it is appropriate to post anything but complimentary words on an 'in memoriam' type thread, but what was "irrational" about what BBB wrote?
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2008 12:29 pm
Re: BBB
snood wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
We've been witnessing a traditional "Irish Wake" with the non-stop exagerated praising of Tim Russert on TV. He was very effective in many ways and deficient in others. He was a nice guy and loyal friend. But he ain't a saint. Making an Idol of Russert will not erase the terrible mistakes the medias' journalists made during the Bush administration.

One thing I've found puzzling is that during three days of comments, no one has said anything about Russert's mother other than she is dead. Why all the emphasis on the males in the family?

BBB
Perhaps you should start a slanderous thread that identifies him as a scumbag, and then spam it with every idiotic opinion piece you can find. The man was a bit soft, in a Larry King kind of way, so what? He was gentle enough to attract the guests and straightforward enough to attract an audience. That's what he did for a living and he did it better than most. You should keep your irrational ramblings to yourself, and look better for it.


I can see if there is a disagreement about whther it is appropriate to post anything but complimentary words on an 'in memoriam' type thread, but what was "irrational" about what BBB wrote?
Well, for starters there's nothing unusual or wrong with presenting the recently departed in the best possible light... and there is certainly nothing uniquely "Irish Wake" about it. <-- That is plenty irrational by itself... but then she graduates to idiotic with this nonsense:
BBB foolishly wrote:
Making an Idol of Russert will not erase the terrible mistakes the medias' journalists made during the Bush administration.
I defy anyone to find one person who's intention by "Making an Idol of Russert" was to "erase the terrible mistakes the medias' journalists made during the Bush administration." Irrational was a kind way to describe this type of misplaced, hyper-partisan idiocy.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2008 12:53 pm
OB
A closed and biased mind doesn't open the door for considering other viewpoints, which are rational and honest.

We ARE witnessing a traditional "Irish Wake" as anyone who knows anything about Irish culture would recognize. I know first hand about the custom. The difference in Russert's wake is that it is being conducted on TV instead of the home or a pub.

The grieving particpants, whether on purpose or emotional, are taking the opportunity to praise their profession instead of having to defend it, a natural response.

Nobody has responded to my question about the domience of discussion about the family males to the exclusion of Russert's mother.

And since Russert is from a Democratic Party family and I'm voting Democrat, how are my comments exhibiting "irrational hyper-partisan" comments?

BBB
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2008 01:09 pm
Re: BBB
OCCOM BILL wrote:
You should keep your irrational ramblings to yourself, ...


Quote:


[from Nimh's post]

But, I cannot stand to see over and over and over "the best journalist in America" sentimentally awarded to someone who had no hard questions for George Bush, Dick Cheney or the architects of war, who warned Karl Rove and protected him in the Plame affair. Someone whom the White House identified as their best forum because they can control the message. That cannot be the best we aspire to. That cannot be our standard of integrity.

Yes, honor him for his humor, his long hours of work, his energy. Please don't lower the standard to where he is "the best" and please, don't compare him to Murrow or others who truly stood up to power.



What about when bad men pose as good men for the express purpose of providing cover for truly evil men, Bill? Surely there ought to be even hotter fires for those who go beyond neutrality to actively support evil.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2008 01:20 pm
JTT's concurrence should be all the proof you need that you've engaged in hyper-partisan idiocy. Idea
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2008 01:23 pm
OB
OCCOM BILL wrote:
JTT's concurrence should be all the proof you need that you've engaged in hyper-partisan idiocy. Idea


OB, I thought you were smarter than to make such a stupid "hyper-partisan response.

BBB
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2008 01:23 pm
Re: BBB
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Well, for starters there's nothing unusual or wrong with presenting the recently departed in the best possible light...


There's everything wrong with it when it perpetuates falsehoods, especially on a national scale, especially on national TV.

No doubt, the social niceties are important; point up his fine qualities and tell some nice stories about him. Take it home or to the church if you want to vote him into sainthood.

It seems to me that any self respecting newsperson would want the truth told, always and forever. How about you, Bill?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2008 01:29 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
JTT's concurrence should be all the proof you need that you've engaged in hyper-partisan idiocy. Idea


Quote:

But, I cannot stand to see over and over and over "the best journalist in America" sentimentally awarded to someone who had no hard questions for George Bush, Dick Cheney or the architects of war, who warned Karl Rove and protected him in the Plame affair. Someone whom the White House identified as their best forum because they can control the message. That cannot be the best we aspire to. That cannot be our standard of integrity.


A partisan is someone who avoids the tough issues, the tough questions, and focuses on the inane. In this you have few equals, Bill.
0 Replies
 
 

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