Objectivism 101

""""I don't think I'm entitled to anything""""

This is the blatant stupidity we're up against JJ....Pete would be grateful if society allowed him to go thru the motions of being a free and productive member of said society

DavidIg : This is the blatant stupidity we're up against JJ....


You keep giving them the benefit of doubt. Unless they have a mind of a child, they are pure unadulterated criminals, trying to fool you, as being stupid.

My view is we've got a mixture of Jews, the brainwashed, and those lovely little creatures "the devil's advocates".......they're all as stupid as each other, but personally, I think most people at philosophy forums have been brainwashed by Plato and Kant etc, and the idea that random individuals like us can challenge them and be right is heresy.

These guys ass-ume that knowledge of deep philosophy is beyond them, so the next best thing is to accurately regurgitate what their respective hero's* have said....they're either too stupid or lazy to do any independent and critical thinking.

*referenced to their prejudices, IOW, certain philosophers appeal to people's prejudices, and the most eloquent of the bunch becomes the lemmings hero.

Who have you been brainwashed by then?

Davidlg, do you have any deep philosophical viewpoints, that you could share with us?

In saying what you said, its as if you have abandoned the history of ideas, believing that we have been "brainwashed", by the philosophers of the past.

and what kind of a comment is "and the idea that random individuals like us can challenge them and be right is heresy". I did not know that philosophers are infallible.

I want to hear the fruits of your labour, of your independent critical thinking, I want you to win me over with your ideas, seeing as I have been "brainwashed", this could be quite a challenge.

existential potential : Who have you been brainwashed by then?

The brainwashing starts with one's own lack of questioning the state of things, in order to find the truth. Most people are satisfied with going along to get along, which then become fertile ground for manipulation. Organized religion and government have a vested interest in keeping one from questioning. The most threatening to the collectivist paradigm, is independent thought.

DavidIg : My view is we've got a mixture of Jews, the brainwashed, and those lovely little creatures "the devil's advocates".......

I see it in terms of human nature. The first law of human nature is self preservation. Collectivism is only the perversion of the Law (right from wrong) in order to create a perception of philanthropy, which can only be self preservation based on the laws of nature. "I love you", is I love you because. Without the because, there is no love. Based on the first law of human nature, collectivism can never be anything but, a Scam.

Have you accepted that individual rights are objective?

My attitude is that I respect people until they prove unwothy of it.

Why are individual rights objective, I want to hear your reasons?

Do I have your permission to beat, rape or steal from you?
If so, can we meet up?....I'm sick of doing the dishes, I need a willing slave who doesn't value his freedom.

(I'm very sorry for how rude I was earlier in this thread)

existential potential, One of the responsibility of entering a 17 page thread is to read the previous posts so no one has to be redundant for the head bangers.

What made you change your mind?

DavidIg : My attitude is that I respect people until they prove unwothy of it.

Worthy is the because.

I don't want to be an ugly person it makes me feel bad and it is also counter productive.

I'm sold, we're now the best of friends

We don't disagree on this point

Existence exists means that we use and validate our senses by confirming that reality exists.......however, if one believes otherwise, ie, it's a dream world{primacy of consciousness}, then they can test their views against reality, for ex, you could dismember one of your limbs and tell yourself that it's just a dream, it'll be there when you wake up or as the dream progresses.

Accepting reality as absolute is important because by extension, you also reject God, religion and mysticism....and in the process, you'd have no choice but to be scientific and logical wrt living your life and problem solving.

Alright then, lets see.


JJ said:
"Therefore, the only way to create legitimate law (moral authority), is through a mutual agreement that if you don't violate my individual rights and sovereignty, then I won't violate yours."

This is human rights as far as social living is concerned, if I lived outside society, what would stop me violating individual rights, in order to survive? That is people who live in society. This does not make right and wrong objective in the slightest, because it is based on an assumption that people have individual rights. And of course they must in a society, in order for it to function without complete chaos, but outside society these individual rights do not necessarily apply.

JJ also said "Any top down system of control using the collectivist paradigm, is totally illegitimate authority unless one has agreed to it, by their own consent in every interaction. Objective morality is basically the value one places on their own existence. To assert that objective morality does not exist, one is only denying the value of their own existence"

yes you must agree to a collectivist paradigm, but you must also do that with a mutual agreement not to violate human rights, I can still value my own life, but I do not necessarily value yours.

How does this make right an wrong objective?

It does in a closed social system, but only in a closed social system, and nothing beyond that. The very fact that objectivist ethics is optional, means that it is neither true nor false, but indeed subjective, or at least intersubjective.



slightly off point, the way that David and JJ have thrown so many insults around, even if you did have a point its lost in the way you refute objections to it.