Flirting with responsibility: Able the girl.

speaking from our experience..


there would have been a time ( And there is .. somewhere buried in my post archive ) that I would have adamantly stated that I would never allow Bean to be outside by herself..

Then I would follow up that responce with a list of the sick-o neighbors we have and let that stand to support my decision.

Not not so much now.

She is 4 and able to decipher between stranger and non stranger.. Not that I tell her what a stranger is.. I just SEE her reacting differently to people she does not know. Not being so quick to run and hug everyone, not always striking up a conversation with them..
Though it makes me a bit sad.. it also makes me abit more confident.

Now.. she is able to play on the second story balcony .. which is right outside our door.. with out me peeking at her.
I used to tell her that she had to stay close to the window so I could see her.

We are now venturing into the area and idea of allowing her to play right downstairs in the tiny 4 car parking lot with out having one of us looking over at her.
THis may take a while.. but.. a few months ago, just that thought.. would have been a no -go, no-way, no-how concept.

I remember.. around 6.. being able to roam freely for about a 6 block radius.. Even farther if I was quick about it..
No parents most of the day and no real supervision beyond our already stated rules.. Stay out of the street- Dont talk to strangers- Come when I call you- rules..

You guys are still relatively new to the neighborhood correct?
About 6 months or so right? Or am I having another memory moment..

I used to think adding an extra link or two to the chain each year was a good idea and would have encouraged it.

Now I'm thinking it's best to keep em close as long as possible. They'll add plenty of their own links eventually without you even knowing. If I had it to do over I would have made them beg and plead for the extra links and only given it to them when they fell over blue in the face... if then.

I'm wondering when over protection became a bad thing.

I think OVER protection, by definition, is a bad thing. It keeps kids from learning how to make good decisions because all decisions are being made for them. We won't be able to be there to make decisions for them forever.

The problem is, what are the parameters of plain ol' protection? The good kind?

I struggle with that a lot too, boomer. (I know we've talked about this before.)

Sozlet is allowed to go anywhere on our block, with permission. She's not allowed to cross streets yet. I think she's getting pretty close to that though.

Circa 1954-59: to about age five, you were allowed to go no farther than your mother's voice would carry. That basically kept you on your street. Once you went to school your boundaries expanded to the distance it was to the school, in my case about a half a mile and included "The Woods" or the Valley Street Playground. Brothers and sisters walked together to school (or at least until we were out of sight of the house) then we paired up or met up with other kids from school in our grades.

No one, I repeat, no one who was walked to school or home from school by their mother got any respect. I remember the name "Jimmy Bosco" to this day solely because he was walked to school by his doting mother until the fourth grade. (I think she was finally taken aside by either our fourth grade teacher or some of the mothers and persuaded to stop because he was teased incessantly by his classmates.)

We lived in a tightly knit (now that I think about it) neighborhood where all the mothers knew all the mothers and all the mothers knew all the kids. So, if you were, for example, up on the roof of the McDowell's garage with Richie Holman and Tommy Ford doing nothing and were seen by Mrs. Miller, Bobby's mother, and you were told to get down, you did it right away. Because you knew if you didn't do it right away, no matter how fast you ran home, the news of you being where you weren't supposed to be would reach your front porch before you did.
(There was some kind of mysterious relay system used.)

We were latchkey kids without keys, my mom worked nights at the hospital and was usually napping when we got home. We changed our clothes in silence, got a slug of milk and an apple and headed out into the neighborhood under the watchful eye Mrs. Marsh, Mrs. Savoy, Mrs. Ford, Mrs. Leeman, Mrs. Tomlinson at the corner store.

When we got bicycles, age ten(?) the town was ours. We watched carefully to learn the route to the Globe Hollow Swimming Hole.. er ..Pool and then, what freedom!, we rode our bikes over there, it was about three miles, with our towels rubberbanded to the handlebars. We rode to the movies on Main Street. We rode, after Richie Holman moved, all the way up to his new house near Lookout Mountain, then we rode those bikes up (okay, pushed those bikes up,) Lookout Mountain and then rode them down the rutted dirt road as fast and as hard as we could go.

Circa: 1974-80 I was a single parent. My boys were allowed to play in the schoolyard behind our house and at the rec center next door, both within the sound of my voice.

When they got a little older, I started playing a game with them in the car. It was called "Oh no, where are we?" We would be at a distant shopping center or coming out from a movie theatre a long way from the house,...... "Oh, no,!"I'd say," Where the heck are we?" It was the boys' job to figure out, seven and ten years old, how to get from where we were to home. They learned pretty quickly how to determine North from South (Tulsa's Streets are numbered.) but East and West can be a problem especially in suburbia where every mall looks just like the last one. "Go left, "they'd say. I'd go left. "Okay, this looks right" or "Wait. No good, turn around." Sometimes it took awhile to get home.

I didn't worry about them getting lost when they got bikes.

Oh, and they had boundaries, they were never to cross the Bypass highway, they were to go no further North than the park at 21st Street, (we were at 49th Street). Later, they were allowed to go the River and fish, but only from the piers. Of course, I don't know if they kept to those boundaries, I didn't have my mother's spies.

Joe(that all seems long ago and far away now)Nation

We've lived here about nine months. One of the things I love about our street is it's pedestrian friendly nature -- there are ALWAYS people around and we've got to know most of them, at least by sight.

Because of this I've found myself changing the way I talk about strangers and feeling a little John Aschroft about it: there are strangers that we know, strangers that we don't know, strangers that we don't know aren't strangers, and people who we do know who are strange.

Like you, shewolf, I'm experimenting with how comfortable I am depending on how comfortable he is.


What made you change your mind about it, Squinney?


Street crossing to Jay's was a big deal for me, soz. It isn't a really busy street but a kinda busy street. Our street dead ends smack into Jay's front yard so I can see him all the way there but crossing the street is nervous making. Mo thinks it's the greatest thing ever and he is super super careful when crossing becuase he doesn't want the privledge taken away.

Joe, I lived around those perimeters about 10 years after you! That mom spy ring thing was completely still in effect.

We were on 18th and we could travel downtown to the library or the skating rink and as far as Philbrook on our own once we got to bicycling age. We could walk the railroad tracks to the river. It would have been completely humiliating to be walked to school by a parent.

On Mo's first day of school here I arranged to meet him on the corner. He didn't show and didn't show so I went to his classroom and learned that 1st grader aren't allowed out of the room without a parent there to pick them up. That's right -- not allowed out of the ROOM.

I see people walking their 4th and 5th graders to school and our neighborhood is frikken Mayberry. Crazy.

I like that "I'm lost!" game and might have to start using that myself.


I've been following the blog of that New York writer who caught so much crap after writing the article about letting her son ride the subway alone. People were writing that she should have her kid taken away because she's obviously unfit.

I think that there is a lot of pressure on parents not to be the crazy idiot who doesn't love their kid enough to know to pick him up in the classroom.

I think kids suffer because of this mindset.

I grew up very carefree - we left in the morning and came back in the
evening or when we were hungry. It's still done this way in Europe, and
I sometimes envy my friends children who can roam around so freely
there.

Here in the United States, we have to be more cautious, and although I am
all for independence, there were certain rules Jane needed to follow
when she was younger and roaming the neighborhood. She was not allowed to enter any neighbor's home without my prior approval, and she had to be home at dusk.

We live pretty safe here and have a small forest, a park and a canyon
around us, so there is plenty of room for kids to explore freely, and
Jane liked that.

I am not too keen on having kids walk alone to and from school though,
and I would not allow an 8 year old to go alone to the store either.

Why do you see walking to school as a problem, CJane?

I don't really know where I stand on this or at what point Mo will be allowed to walk to school on his own. Probably next year. We live so close and that time of day there are hundreds of kids around. I'm curious as to why you think it's a bad idea.

I would certainly feel the same way about the store if it weren't for this particular store. It is situated right in the middle of the neighborhood, in the middle of a block, surrounded by houses, as it has been for the last 80 years.

I feel qualified, having been a kid myself, once. Still, times have changed, so I'll keep the stories of nearly unfettered freedom to myself.

Oh roger, please don't tell us you roamed the American West with your gun like u kno hu! (Sorry, when I see the word "unfettered" it always brings that story to mind.)

As the NY subway crazy mom points out in her article times have changed -- for the better. My computer is acting silly so I'll try to chase down the article after lunch.

bookmark - I'll be back

I'm a bit paranoid here, boomer. Too many kids were abducted on
their way to/home from school, and this is my ultimate nightmare
that a car would pull up and she was dragged into it.

One wants to believe it can never happen, but we cannot be that naive.
Not too long ago, we received a letter from school informing us that
a few kids were followed while walking to school. The police was immediately informed, and I've seen a police car parked close to school many mornings.
Parents were instructed to not let their kids walk by themselves (I never do
anyway), but it was another reminder that we live in different times.

Just been talking to my mother about this today...
We went to a restaurant, which is right next to the playground we use to go to when we were small.
The playground is gone, there is a new one, close by but within view of the restaurant (on the border of the forest).
I said to her: We used to come up here all the time, playing and nobody was bothered. I am not sure, if I would let my child go this far.
Distance is about 20 minutes walk from my parent's house.
She said: I suppose it was OK, if they were a group.
Not sure my self, but I still have a while to think about it!

Re: Flirting with responsibility: Able the girl.


crazy, ive just been going over limits with my dog, our gate blew down and know she thinks she can roam freely.

GAH! children are so much fun!

People overreact, but when the safety of a child is in question, I suppose such behavior is acceptable.

From the Newsweek article:



http://www.newsweek.com/id/133103/page/1

eyah i hate molesters with a passion, it sucks knowing that most murder are commited by someone you know, same for molestings

weird, same thing for shoplifting.... employees lol.


im noticing a pattern.


only the people you trust can betray that trust.

Quick flash memory: When Ben was about eleven he loved to fish the Arkansas down at the concrete pier. It was his thing. Early every weekday morning I'd make him a lunch, leave him some money to buy chicken livers for bait (catfish love chicken livers) and head out to my sales job driving my car around the city in my blue suit and tie. (Yuck)
This is in the days before cellphones, beepers were a new thing, so we were out of touch until I got home just after five.

He'd stop at the grocery store then take his bike down to Riverside Drive, (it's a busy four lane, but we practiced crossing a couple of dozen times), he'd ride down the rivertrail and fish his little heart out. He had spent most of that summer down at the river nearly everyday.


One day I'm in the car and I hear a news report that an unidentified child on a bicycle had been hit by a car on Riverside Drive.

I cannot tell you the thoughts that ran through my head on the way to the river because I had no thoughts - I was driving too fast to think. I am having trouble breathing right now just telling this story and I know how it comes out.

I get to the parking lot, I run up the hill to the path, I run across the wooden bridge to the pier......and there he is.

I run up to him and then, porky little man in a blue suit and tie, I try to be cool.

"Hey, there." I puffed.
"Hey, hey, wow, I caught a big gar!"
"Wow." I said a little woozy from the blood rushing back into my brain.
"I just let him go."
"Wow." I said very cooly.

It was just about at that point that the River Cop Tricycle Motor Thing pulled up.

"Hello," said the officer sliding off the vehicle and coming around next to Ben. "Do you know this man, Ben?"
"Oh yeah, Dan, this is my dad."
"Oh," said Dan dragging out the OOOOh a little as he looked at me."Nice to meetcha."
"Nice to meet you." I said extending my hand.
About that time the second River Cop Tricycle Motor Thing pulled up. Dan gave a wave but the officer got off anyway and walked over to us.

"This is Ben's dad." said Dan.
The officer shook my hand.
"We all know Ben down here. He's a very nice kid."
"Thank you." I said.
Ben had already gone back to fishing.
"You should know that when he first started coming down here, he introduced himself to us."
"Asked us a bunch of questions about where he could fish and stuff." said Dan. "Talked to us every day. Nice kid. So, anyway, we kind of look out after him. Nice kid."

I don't think Dan was ready for the big hug he got from me right about then. I doubled handed shook the other officer's hand till he made me let go.

Then we all watched Ben cast for awhile.

The report about the kid on the bike had turned out to be false, the officers said.

I went to a payphone and called the office and said something had come up and that I would be in tomorrow.

We went to Elmer's BBQ for an early dinner.

Joe(next day Ben went fishing)Nation

wow i dont know why i was just imagining fishing there.



i think its about time to get th hell out of this peice of **** city and go back to reality for a few days.



MOUNT CHARLESTON CAMPING TRIP TIME!

Whew. Tears.


Os(you gave Ben the tools)so