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Elephant paints realistic picture of an elephant.

 
 
Reply Thu 1 May, 2008 03:36 pm
An elephant has been trained to paint a picture of an elephant on paper on an easel. I was amazed at this, and as far as I can tell, it's no trick. This is an 8 minute video.http://www.metro.co.uk/media/viral.html?in_page_id=55&in_mediaext_item_id=140063
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 2,116 • Replies: 23
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mismi
 
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Reply Thu 1 May, 2008 04:26 pm
What kills me here is that the elephant retraces lines very accurately. I'm blown away...can't see how it could be a trick either...
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Diane
 
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Reply Thu 1 May, 2008 04:45 pm
The detail, the flower at the end, were so much more than I would ever have believed. What a joy to see.
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Sglass
 
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Reply Thu 1 May, 2008 05:16 pm
As I live and breathe it's Pablo Pachydern
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Diane
 
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Reply Thu 1 May, 2008 07:44 pm
Sglass, darn those pachyderns and how dare you insult the pachyderm in question? A true talent should be shown all the respect he, or she, deserves. :wink:
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YellowMustard
 
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Reply Wed 14 May, 2008 04:10 pm
Wow...that's more talent than myself.
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farmerman
 
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Reply Wed 14 May, 2008 04:34 pm
There was a hand puppet shaped like an elephants trunk, the voices are just shills . You never see the elephant painting. Either that or the elephants just tracing Very Happy
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coluber2001
 
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Reply Fri 16 May, 2008 11:58 am
Well, if it's a sham then it's a very sophisticated sham. The whole elephant is shown with brush in trunk applying the brush, then it zooms in to the trunk alone. This is done several times. I'm not saying that it's not possible to seamlessly switch a hand puppet during the zoom-in, but I'm also not saying that it's impossible that an elephant could paint.

I found myself denying, at first, that an elephant could paint a realistic image, and I looked for tricks, but I also recognize that in our anti-nature culture we are all indoctrinated with vestiges of the geocentric mindset, and an anthropocentric first response to an elephant painting is not an unanticipated response.
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farmerman
 
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Reply Fri 16 May, 2008 12:24 pm
Im a skeptic, not easy to convince till Ive seen the whole elephant involved. The shots with his face on the screen could also be a puppet because theres a quick zoom onto the trunk with a brush.

Quote:
I also recognize that in our anti-nature culture we are all indoctrinated with vestiges of the geocentric mindset, and an anthropocentric first response to an elephant painting is not an unanticipated response.


what the heck is a geocentric mindset have to do with the price of oranges?
Also, "anthropocentric first responses" is sort of good because we are anthros. We question and dont necessarily buy at first offer. (Least I do)
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wandeljw
 
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Reply Fri 16 May, 2008 12:54 pm
Quote:
Elephant 'self-portrait' on show
(BBC News Online, 21 July 2006)

Art graduate Victoria Khunapramot, 26, has brought the paintings from Thailand to the Dundas Gallery on Dundas Street.

They include "self-portraits" by Paya, who is said to be the only elephant to have mastered his own likeness.

Paya is one of six elephants whose keepers have taught them how to hold a paintbrush in their trunks. They drop the brush when they want a new colour.

Mrs Khunapramot, from Newington, said: "Many people cannot believe that an elephant is capable of producing any kind of artwork, never mind a self-portrait.

"But they are very intelligent animals and create the entire paintings with great gusto and concentration within just five or 10 minutes - the only thing they cannot do on their own is pick up a paintbrush, so it gets handed to them.

"They are trained by artists who fine-tune their skills, and they paint in front of an audience in their conservation village, leaving no one in any doubt that they are authentic elephant creations."

Mrs Khunapramot, who set up the Thai Fine Art company after studying the history of art in St Andrews and business management at Edinburgh's Napier University, said it took about a month to train the animals to paint.

Elephant expert Dr Joyce Poole, who has studied the animals for 30 years, said she owned an elephant painting but had not come across animals painting their own images.

The Oslo-based scientist said: "I have seen elephants painting, but it was very free-flow.

"It's certainly capable of drawing an elephant, and could be trained, but might not really understand what it was doing."
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JLNobody
 
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Reply Fri 16 May, 2008 05:09 pm
I share Farmer's skepticism. But I wish it were true. All too often the genius of abstract art is belittled with examples of monkeys, cats and babies painting "interesting" abstract images. It would be good to know that representational art is little more than mechanically "learned" skill, sometimes creative and sometimes not.
Frankly, I strive to paint abstract works as free, spontaneous and expressive as those painted by some monkeys, cats and babies.
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farmerman
 
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Reply Sat 17 May, 2008 05:41 am
Yes, but there is an assumption that you are imbued with self awareness. SO abstract painting by you is a skilled departure. Realistic depictions by the elephant is almost a quantum leap in our understandings of animal intelligence and self awareness. Using tools with its trunk as deftly as the clip implies is just mindblowing.
Hence , my deep skepticism. I too would love to see this be, but only after verification in scientific means other than Youtube Very Happy

I went back and viewed the clip and have not changed my skeptical view one jot.
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sozobe
 
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Reply Sat 17 May, 2008 06:20 am
This came up before, I looked into it. I think the elephants are repeating movements made by their trainers. That is, they're still smart and highly-trained -- they're holding a brush and doing what they're supposed to do. But I think the image has nothing in particular to do with the elephants. I think they're just following movements made in the air by the trainer. (The elephant is shown but the trainer is not, and I got glimpses of the trainer looking like he was doing something.)

Perhaps it's one step further and they are trained to do the sequence of movements, without the trainer needing to do anything (or much) during the session. But I still don't think it's about the elephant thinking "hey, I'll do a self-portrait." (The last line of Wandel's article gets at that, too.)
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farmerman
 
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Reply Sat 17 May, 2008 06:29 am
Even with the pap'aan giving instructions by waving in the air, the fine control that that would imply is still boggling.
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sozobe
 
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Reply Sat 17 May, 2008 07:44 am
Yeah... I believe the fine control part though. Elephants' trunks seem to be almost as capable as human hands. Baby elephants need to learn how to use 'em and are awkward at first, etc.
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sozobe
 
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Reply Sat 17 May, 2008 07:46 am
Wikipedia

Quote:
The proboscis, or trunk, is a fusion of the nose and upper lip, elongated and specialized to become the elephant's most important and versatile appendage. African elephants are equipped with two fingerlike projections at the tip of their trunk, while Asians have only one. According to biologists, the elephant's trunk may have over forty thousand individual muscles in it,[25] making it sensitive enough to pick up a single blade of grass, yet strong enough to rip the branches off a tree. Some sources indicate that the correct number of muscles in an elephant's trunk is closer to one hundred thousand.[26]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant#Trunk
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coluber2001
 
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Reply Tue 20 May, 2008 11:17 am
I'm reserving my judgement until there is more information. I think there is a good possibility that we've been Bushitted, but like JLNobody I wish it were true. I also think our culture is so traditionally anthropocentric that it threatens us to imagine that another animal besides ourselves could have the faculty to create an image threatens our identity.

Man used to be described as the "tool using animal," but now many animals are seen to be using tools including insecets, so we have had to come up with other definitions of our identity.
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cyphercat
 
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Reply Tue 20 May, 2008 01:43 pm
coluber2001 wrote:
I also think our culture is so traditionally anthropocentric that it threatens us to imagine that another animal besides ourselves could have the faculty to create an image threatens our identity.

Man used to be described as the "tool using animal," but now many animals are seen to be using tools including insecets, so we have had to come up with other definitions of our identity.


I agree...I started noticing in college classes how often some variation of the old "humans are the only animal that . . ." trope would be brought up. I can't help but wonder why people seem so concerned with trying to prove that we're "special" in some way or another--it smacks of a species-wide inferiority complex to me Laughing
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Sglass
 
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Reply Tue 20 May, 2008 01:52 pm
Sglass wrote:
As I live and breathe it's Pablo Pachydern


How about an A2K tour to go see the elephants paint. Then we can decide whether or not these packys can paint.
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Gala
 
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Reply Tue 20 May, 2008 02:11 pm
Yes, it seems fake. While first watching it I noticed how quickly the camera zooms into the trunk as soon as it puts brush to canvas.

The other thing, which makes it seem fake is the headline "elephant paints amazing portrait", or whatever. Are we such nitwits they have to tell us this is "amazing?"
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