? Well Water Treatment products - Watts, EcoWater

justalurker wrote:

animachina wrote:
Wow, you guys need to get a private forum just to argue about Fleck and Clack and your other personal water treatment experiences and beliefs. I don't think you're helping ANYBODY with these little arguments that seem to take over every single topic in this forum.

My apologies. I believe I answered your original question in a concise and factual manner with my first post in this thread.

Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate any and all info that you all have. It just seems that in most of these threads, after the initial responses, the discussion turns into back and forth squabbling that turns anybody off from adding any further knowledge or experience or follow up questions.

What about Wendy in CA's reply about ECOsmarte? I was more than a bit surprised and concerned about the gallons and gallons of waste water these systems produce each week.

Andy CWS - I will be in touch soon! Smile

0 Replies

animachina wrote:

What about Wendy in CA's reply about ECOsmarte? I was more than a bit surprised and concerned about the gallons and gallons of waste water these systems produce each week.

The ECOsmarte seems to, according to their website, do all sorts of things to one's water... except soften it.

0 Replies

No Softening Needed
justalurker -
Correct. An ECOsmarte system does not soften your water, it conditions the water so the need for a softener is eliminated. If you took a hardness test before it went through the system and a test after the system, they would be identical. The healthy minerals stay in the water where your body needs them.

The only thing put into the water to accomplish this is copper ions. Hard water scaling is eliminated because the copper ions change the minerals in the water to bicarbonate, and they will not precipitate out under 150 degrees. Household appliances normally stay at 140 and below. No hard water scale builds up on faucets. No reduction of the life of appliances. Maximum effectiveness of soaps and detergents just like softened water. Also - no slippery feel as with salt softened water. We guarantee satisfaction up to 25 grains of hardness.

Copper ions are recognized as a residual sanitizer by the NSF. Particularly with well systems it is important to ensure sanitary water right up to your point of use. The copper ions will do that for you, actively acting as a residual killing agent right up that glass of water. The well system teams copper ionization with powerful oxidation that takes care of special well problems like manganese, iron and sulfur dioxide.

Backwash from the filtration tanks is non-toxic (unlike like brine discharge) and can even be used as supplemental irrigation. The system is truly Eco-friendly.

0 Replies

animachina wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate any and all info that you all have. It just seems that in most of these threads, after the initial responses, the discussion turns into back and forth squabbling that turns anybody off from adding any further knowledge or experience or follow up questions.

Rereading the thread, you asked about Watts, Alamo and Clack and now Wendy's 'conditioner. You received answers and you were asked questions and haven't answered any of them.

animachina wrote:

What about Wendy in CA's reply about ECOsmarte? I was more than a bit surprised and concerned about the gallons and gallons of waste water these systems produce each week.

Ionization has been around for maybe 20 years and it hasn't worked in any of the attempts to sell it that I've heard of. IMO it will not help you with your water quality problems.

As to "wasting water", many people do not consider using water to improve the quality of the water in their homes or businesses as wasteful anymore than they believe that washing their face or clothes or bodies or dishes, cars, veggies, etc, is wasteful. Other than nanofiltration there is no substitute for a water softener. I say that having looked at all alternatives over the last 21 years.

0 Replies

Take another look...
So I guess ionization didn't work for NASA's space shoots, then? Goodness, the astronauts would be bummed, because that's where the technology came from.

Quote:

Ionization has been around for maybe 20 years and it hasn't worked in any of the attempts to sell it that I've heard of. IMO it will not help you with your water quality problems.

There are a lot of applications of ionization that a quick search on the internet provides. Attempting to choose the most credible ones... here are some for you.

Wasting water is a matter of perspective. If you have the technology to get a gallon of clean water without using 3-4 gallons to produce that clean gallon - why not use it? Especially when you can google "water shortage" and find problems all over the world.

I would agree that there is no substitute for a water softener if you want to remove the minerals from your water. But new technology is here that eliminates the need for mineral removal, so why soften unless your water is so hard (>25 grains) that you have little choice? Why put chlorides into the environment when you don't have to? Why use so much water (with RO) to get your clean water?

After so many years - we finally have a planet-friendly choice for water treatment. The salt industry is beginning to release it's stranglehold on the water industry at long last, probably due to uncontrolled information dissemination about alternatives to water softeners that can be so easily found on the internet at this point. A couple of years ago I attended a "Pacific Water Quality Association" show and was amazed to see a huge banner hanging across the entrance "Sponsored by Morton Salt". No wonder they weren't interested in our systems. We weren't offering to sponsor the show...

There is a big beautiful fountain in front of the Los Angeles Music Center. They contacted us to solve their hard water scaling problems at that fountain. Yes, it worked.

0 Replies

Gary Slusser wrote:

Rereading the thread, you asked about Watts, Alamo and Clack and now Wendy's 'conditioner. You received answers and you were asked questions and haven't answered any of them.

You're right. I wasn't sure how much help my answers would be since we haven't moved in to the house yet due to remodeling. At least 2 adults and one child. My mother in-law may be joining us. We have 3 full baths and currently no heavy water needs except for long, hot showers. I do like to maintain equipment myself, but have no problem letting an expert do his job every few years or so if nec. I work over an hour away from home and don't want my wife to get stuck with a problem until I can get home to fix it.

All I have been able to find out about the Ecowater RO, is that you seem to get what you pay for and they are on the high end (I'm sure it's a bit over priced). The "Chlor-Zonator" is a bit of a mystery, but seems on-par with other dry pellet chlorine injection systems.

0 Replies

animachina wrote:

You're right. I wasn't sure how much help my answers would be since we haven't moved in to the house yet due to remodeling.

I hope you can get all the answers you need without all the 'debating' going on.

Look forward to hering from you.
Andy Christensen, CWS-II

0 Replies

Andy CWS wrote:

animachina wrote:
You're right. I wasn't sure how much help my answers would be since we haven't moved in to the house yet due to remodeling.

I hope you can get all the answers you need without all the 'debating' going on.

Look forward to hering from you.
Andy Christensen, CWS-II

Andy,

I sent an email last night but got a message back saying it was "delayed" - not sure why. Anyway - you can just contact me at animachina at hot mail dot com - thanks

0 Replies

Re: Take another look...

Wendy in CA wrote:

So I guess ionization didn't work for NASA's space shoots, then? Goodness, the astronauts would be bummed, because that's where the technology came from.

Yes I know and I've followed it for about 20 years in the residential water quality improvement industry. I said it doesn't work, meaning in residential and most business applications. Not that it does not work anywhere.

Wendy in CA wrote:

There are a lot of applications of ionization that a quick search on the internet provides. Attempting to choose the most credible ones...

It works in continuous loops like your fountain, and as a bacteriostatic device in very limited situations or applications, in cooling towers etc., yet here we are talking a very different application; a POE (point of entry) closed loop residential situation, with problem water. IIRC NASA invented it to control bacteria, not as a descale or anti-scale device. Am I right on that?

Wendy in CA wrote:

I would agree that there is substitute for a water softener if you want to remove the minerals from your water.

People don't buy a softener to remove the minerals from their water as if that is their goal, they do so to protect their fixtures, clothes, appliances etc. and to reduce the cost of operating certain appliances etc. as opposed to increasing their cost of living and reducing their quality of life. my record hardness is 136 gpg and more than 25 gpg is very common.

Wendy in CA wrote:

But new technology is here that eliminates the need for mineral removal, so why soften unless your water is so hard (>25 grains) that you have little choice?

I don't agree that the technology is here, if it was, many of us softener selling folks would be selling it already. But > 25 gpg!! Try living with water with as little as 10 gpg and see how difficult it is. Man did so for centuries before discovering how to remove hardness from water, and now you and other mechanical/electronic water treatment types (including magnet sales folks) want to go back to the good old days and up to and over 25 gpg hard water!! That would be an extreme cost to your customer and make their lives miserable.

If you and others want to save water, seriously, quit taking so many showers, bubble baths in huge tubs, washing clothes before they require washing, washing clothes and dishes in machines, bathing babies 6 times a day, washing cars so frequently and watering lawns and insisting on planting other vegetation that can't survive without watering. IMO that would really save water and improve the environment. It would reduce your cost of living too.

I hope that's not too much "debate" for animachina or others.

0 Replies

I'm off to my bath in a huge tub...
Well, if the system really didn't work I wouldn't have satisfied customers that welcome a call from potential customers so they can talk about how much they love their system. And the company would not have continued to grow for 14 years.
Has the scale control aspect been proven for residential by a study? No - you are right, it has not. Which by the way, does not mean it doesn't work, only that a study has yet to prove it. Did NASA develop it for bacterial control? Yes. Were there unexpected benefits? Yes.
Of course salt softeners have more capacity in grains than this system - you just throw more salt in, and more chlorides go into the environment. If the people who had 25 grains and less used our system - it would be a huge amount of water saved, and softeners would still serve the people with ultra hard water.
My customers are not paying softener bills every month, the service trucks don't need to go to their house (more gas used), their soaps work fine, clothes are great, they are not experiencing scale issues on fixtures or appliances, and they LOVE their water, so I fail to see the extreme cost they are paying...in fact they seem quite happy with their choice (which by the way, has nothing whatsoever to do with magnets).
We can continue this if you like off the boards wendy at ecosmartewater dot com
Thank you for the spirited discussion!

0 Replies

ECOsmarte warrants its equipment to be free of defects in material or workmanship on the main base for the period of five (5) years.

On the main valve, handle, and O rings the warranty period of one (1) year from date of delivery from our factory or authorized distributor.

This warranty includes the electronic box, the plumbing components and the titanium electrodes.
It does not include the self-sacrificing copper electrodes.

The warranty does not include installation or repair cost and in no event shall the manufacturer's liability exceed its selling price.

I'll stick with good old ion exchange. It has a proven track record.
The best complete, turn key system I have found is ECOwater.
Systems powered by the proven Fleck 2510 SE control valve are 2nd best.

_________________
WHAT CAN H2O MAN DO FOR YOU?

0 Replies

H2O_MAN wrote:

I'll stick with good old ion exchange. It has a proven track record.
The best complete, turn key system I have found is ECOwater.
Systems powered by the proven Fleck 2510 SE control valve are 2nd best.

H2O_MAN, Is there a particular ECOwater system you would recommend based on the info I had in my first post and my follow-up info on page three?

The local ECOwater dealer stands by his recommendation I posted and said if we wanted the ECOwater system instead, it would be another 2-3 grand (2 separate tanks, etc.). So he was trying to give us the "best bang for the buck" and has many satisfied customers using the Watts system.

Thanks

0 Replies

If you are not going to buy online and install it yourself or hire a plumber or handyman to install it for a couple hundred, saving hundreds or a thousand plus, then go with the Watts.

0 Replies

animachina wrote:

H2O_MAN wrote:

I'll stick with good old ion exchange. It has a proven track record.
The best complete, turn key system I have found is ECOwater.
Systems powered by the proven Fleck 2510 SE control valve are 2nd best.

H2O_MAN, Is there a particular ECOwater system you would recommend based on the info I had in my first post and my follow-up info on page three?

The local ECOwater dealer stands by his recommendation I posted and said if we wanted the ECOwater system instead, it would be another 2-3 grand (2 separate tanks, etc.). So he was trying to give us the "best bang for the buck" and has many satisfied customers using the Watts system.

Thanks

I suggest having just the ECOwater softener installed and see if you are happy with the results.

You can add additional equipment later if needed, but I'm thinking you will not need anything else.

WATTS sells systems powered by Fleck 2510 SE valves - not bad, but ECOwater is better if you can get it.

I hope that helps.

_________________
WHAT CAN H2O MAN DO FOR YOU?

0 Replies

Re: No Softening Needed

Wendy in CA wrote:

The healthy minerals stay in the water where your body needs them.

I am always a bit confused on the thinking here. What minerals from water do we depend on? I try not to confuse what miniscule amount of INORGANIC minerals that might be in the water that could possibly replace the organic minerals we get from a proper diet and mineral/vitamin suppliments.

That always seems to be little more than a marketing ploy. I believe that water should be a transporter of nutrients and not a supplier. Unless my doctor prescribes that I drink 14 gallons of HIGH MINERAL content of water, I would never depend on H20 to provide my nutritional daily needs.

I went to a house last month where a woman had a clear, four-gallon jug of water with a spigot on the bottom. In the bottle was a load of rocks that some sold her. She was told to drink this water everyday to put minerals back in her body. Of course she believed him. I ask her what the pH of the water was and she looked at me strangely. Well, no need to explain further...I thought.

Sorry Wendy in CA, I just don't buy that getting a water system BECAUSE it leaves inorganic minerals, salts and metals in the water that it is good for me. In fact, I prefer an RO that removes them nearly completely and then eat a proper diet as you really should.

How many gallons of hard water (containing inorganic calcium) at 25 grains per gallon would you have to drink to equal the one 8oz glass of Vitamin D milk or a cup of natural plain yogurt?

Thanks for your input, It was interesting.
Andy Christensen, CWS-II

0 Replies

animachina,

Before you decide on the Watts, the concerns I noted in my first post, and that Gary echoed in his first post, are still unresolved and important.

As I posted, the quality of the Watts hardware is consistent with the industry standard, BUT the hardness removal capacity of the resin volume and the SFR of the piggyback model may not be, and is probably not, adequate for your water conditions and plumbing requirements.

Absent the specs to confirm those aspects of the Watts piggyback softener, and I can not find them anywhere on the Watts site, you would most probably be buying an undersized softener.

0 Replies

justalurker wrote:

animachina,

Before you decide on the Watts, the concerns I noted in my first post, and that Gary echoed in his first post, are still unresolved and important.

As I posted, the quality of the Watts hardware is consistent with the industry standard, BUT the hardness removal capacity of the resin volume and the SFR of the piggyback model may not be, and is probably not, adequate for your water conditions and plumbing requirements.

Absent the specs to confirm those aspects of the Watts piggyback softener, and I can not find them anywhere on the Watts site, you would most probably be buying an undersized softener.

Okay - Here are the specs I have from the Watts brochure for that model:

Capacity (Grains Removal) 30,000
Service Flow Rate (GPM) 8.8
Pressure Drop (PSI) 15
Backwash (GPM) 2.2

Mineral Tanks
Top - 10x24 Media - 0.88 Cubic Ft.
Bottom - 10x35 Media - 1.38 Cubic Ft.
Gravel #20 10 Lbs

Brine Tank - 18"x36" Salt Fill 300 Lbs

0 Replies

animachina,

You might want to find out more about Kinetico products. They make some of the most effecient and reliable equipment anywhere.

From you water test results you can get excellent service and it will last you for decades without service calls. There are a lot of great products, but it is always wise to get the details on various products to make an educated decision. Wouldn't that sound fair.

Take care,
Andy Christensen, CWS-II

0 Replies

Minerals in drinking water...
Andy,
The World Health Organization formed the International Symposium on Health Aspects of Calcium and Magnesium in Drinking Water to address concerns about long term consumption of demineralized water. In August of 2004, they drafted their initial conclusions. Here is the document in full.

Here is an excellent synopsis of the study - from a bottled water point of view.

Below are some excerpts.

"Over 80 observational epidemiological studies have been reported in the published literature since 1957 (Calderon) relating water hardness and cardiovascular disease risks. Most, but not all of the studies found an inverse (protective) association between cardiovascular disease mortality and increased water hardness (measured by calcium carbonate or another hardness parameter and/or the calcium and magnesium content of the water. .The group concluded that there is sufficient epidemiological evidence of an inverse relationship between calcium and magnesium concentrations in drinking water and ischemic heart disease mortality, and that consumption of water containing calcium and magnesium, and therefore all the reintroduction of Mg and Ca into demineralized water in the remineralization process would likely provide health benefits in those consumer populations. .In addition, limited but suggestive evidence exists for benefits associated with other diseases (stroke, renal stone formation, cognitive impairment in the elderly, very low birth weight, bone fractures among children, pregnancy complications, hypertension and possibly some cancers).

Hard water is a reliable and stable source of calcium and sometimes magnesium although the absolute and relative concentrations will vary greatly by source. Consumption of moderately hard water containing typical amounts of calcium and magnesium may provide an important incremental percentage of their daily intake. Inadequate total dietary intakes of calcium and magnesium are common worldwide. Therefore, an incremental contribution from drinking water can be an important supplement to approach more ideal total daily intakes. Moreover, hard water can reduce the losses of calcium, magnesium and other essential minerals from food during cooking. If low mineralized water is used for food and beverage production, reduced levels of Ca, Mg and other essential elements would also occur in those products. Low intakes would occur not only because of the lower contribution of these minerals from water used in beverages, but also because of the high losses of the minerals from food products (e.g. vegetables, cereals, potatoes, or meat) into water during cooking."

So, yes, minerals in water are an important factor. In fact if you take the time to read the report, you will find that the group of 200 researchers actually recommended adding minerals to the water supply as a preventative measure. They postulate that health costs would reduce as a result. We don't claim that drinking ECOsmarte Water will satisfy your total daily requirement for minerals - that would obviously depend on the hardness of the water where you live. Nor am I suggesting you should not eat a proper diet in addition to drinking good water...that's a no-brainer.

But before you tout the wonderful qualities of RO - know the facts. Not only does reverse osmosis water not provide minerals, it leaches them from your mineral-rich foods when used for cooking. Better keep taking those mineral supplements, Andy Christensen!

0 Replies

@Gary Slusser,

And if Clack would actually honor their warrenty I might begin to agree with you. However, after being ignored by them completely after my distributor went out of business I have no respect whatsoever for Clack. Their warranty is crap. At least with Fleck they appear to have a solid reputation and stand behind their equipment. Definately more than I can say for Clack.

Clack is crap in my opinion!

2 Replies

? Well Water Treatment products - Watts, EcoWater

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know