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Tue 15 Apr, 2008 08:22 am
April 15, 2008
Mayors and Wal-Mart Back Gun Sales Plan
By JEREMY W. PETERS
New York Times
A coalition of mayors in favor of gun control, led by Michael R. Bloomberg of New York and Thomas M. Menino of Boston, said on Monday that it had reached a 10-point agreement with Wal-Mart, the country's largest seller of guns, to track the sale of firearms more closely.
The agreement between Wal-Mart and the group, Mayors Against Illegal Guns, which Mr. Bloomberg helped to organize in 2006, calls for turning a more watchful eye on firearm sales, including videotaping sales of guns and conducting criminal background checks on store clerks who handle guns.
It also calls for keeping a record each time the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives links a gun bought at Wal-Mart to a crime. If a person who buys a gun linked to a crime were to return to a Wal-Mart to buy another gun, the purchase would be flagged. It would then be up to the store whether to permit the purchase.
When fully put into effect, the agreement would also prohibit the sale of a gun to someone whose background check comes back with inconclusive results. In many states, people are permitted to buy firearms even if a background check comes back with inconclusive results.
"This would be good politics to get behind," Mr. Bloomberg said at a news conference in Washington with other mayors from across the country. "Hopefully it doesn't take that as a consideration to get you to do the right thing. But if nothing else, the public wants to stop the craziness of letting people who are criminals get guns."
The timing of the announcement was notable: A year ago this week, a gunman killed 32 people on the campus of Virginia Tech, and next week Pennsylvania holds its presidential primary.
The mayors also unveiled a television commercial that calls on Congress ?- and the three major presidential candidates ?- to push for a law to require background checks of people who buy guns at gun shows.
The commercial, which features video clips of Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton, Barack Obama and John McCain all expressing support for background checks at gun shows, is to begin appearing on Wednesday in Pennsylvania, as well as in the home states of the three candidates and elsewhere across the country.
As for the new guidelines at Wal-Mart, the schedule for implementation was uncertain. J. P. Suarez, the company's chief compliance officer, would not say how long it would be before the procedures were fully implemented, adding that it could be some time before parts of the plan that require new technology were in place.
"Some of the things are going to be fairly quick for us to implement," Mr. Suarez said. "Some things, because they require systems or technology inputs in our stores where we carry firearms, will take a little bit more lead time."
Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said in an interview on Monday that the program would be highly effective once it was phased in. "We do think it could make a big difference," he said. "As long as it turns from talking to actually happening around the country, it's going to be major. Hopefully it will set the standard."
As Mr. Bloomberg has tried to enhance his national image, he has focused on gun control as one of his defining issues.
His activism has earned him the ire of gun rights groups, notably the National Rifle Association.
On Monday, Wayne LaPierre, the chief executive of the association, said the effort was "more a public relations stunt than a crime fighting measure."
"What's not being done," he said, "is the prosecution of felons with guns, drug dealers with guns, gangs with guns and people illegally selling guns."
Michael Bloomberg and Wallmart. An alliance made in heaven. Not that our local Wallmart has sold handguns in the past decade anyway.
mysteryman wrote:Quote:It also calls for keeping a record each time the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives links a gun bought at Wal-Mart to a crime. If a person who buys a gun linked to a crime were to return to a Wal-Mart to buy another gun, the purchase would be flagged. It would then be up to the store whether to permit the purchase.
So if I buy a gun and it gets stolen (which does happen in the real world), and that gun then gets used in a crime in another city or state, Walmart would have the ability to deny me the right to buy another gun?
Even though I reported the theft to the police, even thought I did everything possible to protect my gun from being stolen from my house or car?
When fully put into effect, the agreement would also prohibit the sale of a gun to someone whose background check comes back with inconclusive results. In many states, people are permitted to buy firearms even if a background check comes back with inconclusive results.
Thats because if its inconclusive, that means there was no evidence either way that says I could not legally buy a firearm.
So, apparently Walmart and these idiotic mayors want to above the law, and do things their way instead of doing what the law says.
But Wal Mart is a private company and does not have to sell you anything. They can deny you service for any reason. You're entitled to buy a gun, but they aren't entitled to sell it to you.
I think tracking guns is a common sense approach to gun trafficking. It isn't hard to see that gun shop A has lots of fire-arms showing up at crime scenes while gun shop B doesn't and that John Doe is buying dozens of weapons a month, many showing up at crime scenes. Let everyone own arms, but track the purchases. We track cars but no one is worried about the government coming to take our cars (even though that would have a lot bigger negative impact than taking guns.)
mysteryman wrote:
So if I buy a gun and it gets stolen (which does happen in the real world), and that gun then gets used in a crime in another city or state, Walmart would have the ability to deny me the right to buy another gun?
They already have the right to deny you the "right" (not at all a right) to purchase a gun in their store.
They can do it for almost whatever reason they please, even if they just decide you look funny or that they don't like you.
Quote:
So, apparently Walmart and these idiotic mayors want to above the law, and do things their way instead of doing what the law says.
Walmart can refuse to sell a gun to you for almost whatever reason they please and it's perfectly legal.
BBB
I think Walmart is not the biggest gun seller problem. It's the gun shows that are the worst. They are totally unregulated. That's the reason the NRA exists, to protect gun show sellers and gun manufacturers.
BBB
Re: BBB
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:I think Walmart is not the biggest gun seller problem. It's the gun shows that are the worst. They are totally unregulated. That's the reason the NRA exists, to protect gun show sellers and gun manufacturers.
BBB
They aren't totally unregulated.
I suspect you've never even been to one.
Re: BBB
fishin wrote:BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:I think Walmart is not the biggest gun seller problem. It's the gun shows that are the worst. They are totally unregulated. That's the reason the NRA exists, to protect gun show sellers and gun manufacturers.
BBB
They aren't totally unregulated.
I suspect you've never even been to one.
How are they regulated? What is the degree of regulation. Which states are not regulated? What is the "gun show loop hole"?
BBB
Re: BBB
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:fishin wrote:BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:I think Walmart is not the biggest gun seller problem. It's the gun shows that are the worst. They are totally unregulated. That's the reason the NRA exists, to protect gun show sellers and gun manufacturers.
BBB
They aren't totally unregulated.
I suspect you've never even been to one.
How are they regulated?
BBB
According the the Brady Campaign's own stats, 75% of people selling guns at gun shows are FFL holders - and they are regulated by and required to comply with all Federal and state gun laws as far as sales go - including background checks on any buyer.
Again, according to their own stats there are some 4,000 gun shows in the U.S. each year. There are also 18 states that require background checks on firearms sales at gun shows. The bulk of those gun shows (~65%) are held in just 10 states. Of those 10 states, 7 require background checks on ALL gun sales at gun shows - private sales and those form a FFL holder. MD went the other way and banned all private sales at gun shows so only FFL holders can sell guns in that stae.
That hardly seems like it is "totally unregulated".