Pit Bulls

@JLNobody,

Thank you. I agree with you that we shouldn't go willy nilly about destroying all pitbulls any more than we attempt to destroy any other potentially dangerous creatures. But I do think the breed should be outlawed and no more pitbulls should be bred or sold or given away and this generation of the breed should be its last.

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In my local paper today. Always nice to read about "lemon sized" flaps of scalp torn from the back of 3 year-old children. Yep, these poor beasts are just misunderstood.

Quote:

3-year-old, parents attacked by pit bull in El Mirage on Sunday
The Arizona Republic

A young child and his mother were sent to the hospital after a dog attack Sunday night, officials said.

About 9 p.m. El Mirage police were called to the 11500 block of West Columbine Drive for a dog attack on a 3-year-old boy and his parents, police spokesman William Louis said in a statement.

The mother and boy were transported to Del Webb Hospital with non life-threatening injuries, Louis said. The mother and father received puncture wounds to their arms and the child got numerous stitches for a "lemon sized" flap of scalp torn at the back of his head.

A white pit bull with a brown collar entered the backyard through an open gate, Louis said. The dog grabbed the back of the boy's head when the parents tried to free him, and they also were bitten.

The parents were able to free the child's head, and the dog ran away southbound on 115th avenue, Louis said.

Officers have searched the area and contacted neighbors, who told officers a similar looking dog has been seen roaming 115th Avenue in the mornings. Other neighbors said the dog could be living in the Agua Fria River bed.

As of Monday morning, the dog has not been located, Louis said. El Mirage police have been patrolling the area and Maricopa County Animal Rabies Control officers have said they will also be patrolling the area.

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/9254/72164221234522599.jpg

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We get an American TV programme here called The Dog Whisperer or some such name, about a hispanic dog trainer who really knows what he is doing.

Always interesting.

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@McTag,

ok i have been meeting people walking their pitbulls around a lot lately, this year pretty much..

well, "met" , lol...

Almost all the pitbulls i meet are ******* AGGRESSIVE

It is so annoying, to walk by with my two pitbulls, they are chillin, they show interest in the other dog but they walk straight and focused on my movements..

the other dog though, is usually freaking out barking , growling and just being completely aggressive..

I hate to say it, maybe pitbulls are dangerous, and im 100% sure its the owners fault.

i mean its ridiculous how untrained the dogs i meet are

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Another victim: the other day a woman in my town was badly injured by a pair of pitt bulls that escaped from their yard. I suspect things might be not so bad if we did not keep pitt bulls in pairs. They seems to set each other off--like hunting in packs.

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@McTag,

a2k whisperers

when the pitbulls hit

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@Ticomaya,

My cats is of the opinion that all dogs are dangerous and will not allow me to have one as a family member however any breed of dog if raised correctly is likely to be far less of a threat on average then the other human members of your household.

For example the leading cause of death for a pregnancy woman is her male partner not a dog of any breed!

In fact if you go to the CDC site the ranking for all the 100 millions of dogs living with families as a cause of death can not be found.

If humans was as dangerous as dogs to each other, the yearly total murder rate would be around 30 for the whole country.

If you wish to keep families safe do not ban the Pit Bull from homes instead ban all the mature males instead.

And this fact is being stated by a mature male.

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@Foxfyre,

You know Foxfyre others breeds have a far worst record then Pitt Bulls and the reason you hear about so many Pitt Bulls attacks is that our wonderful news media just love to report them and other attacks by other breeds are not all that newsworthy.

Get a hand maul by a German Shepherd and it is far less likely that this will be reported even in your local news however a similar Pitt Bull attack will get on CNN. Oh for your information German Shepherd breed hold the record for human attacks if memory serve me correctly.

When I was young the devil dog was not the Pitt Bull but the Dobeman and I am sure such people as you was then calling for them to be outlaw at the time.

The Dobeman breed was suppose to turn on their owners without cause and almost at random.

For myself I had known and interacted with a number of Pitt Bulls own by others and see like reason not to just treat them with the same respect you would give any other breed of large dog.

I once watch with great amusement as my mother small dog try to mount a male Pitt Bull visiting us and to see the Pitt bull turning a head itself bigger then my mother dog to give him a dirty look as a result was priceless.

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@BillRM,

Sorry, but you obviously haven't read all this thread. If you had, you would have seen quite credible statistics posted showing that other breeds do not have a far worse record than Pit Bulls when it comes to unprovoked aggression or when it comes to the likelihood of severe injury. Some breeds are statistically more dangerous than others, but Pit Bulls are right up there at the top and are No. 1 in unpredictablity. Most dogs bite and release. Pit bulls don't.

Yes, you are far more likely to be bitten by a Chihuahua than you are a Pit Bull. For one thing, there are far more Chihuahuas than there are Pit Bulls and it is a fact that Chihuahuas can be nasty tempered little devils. But your chances of sustaining any serious injury from a Chihuahua are not much. From an attacking Pit Bull, substantial.

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@Foxfyre,

pit bull = loaded weapon in the wrong hands ...such as an untrained and unknowledgable owner/handler.

Please check out the 'Dog Whisperer' Cesar Milan for informative training and handling behavior info on Pit Bulls and all types of dogs and behavior issues.

Also if you look at the demographics of where and who are the majority that tends to buy these dogs...typical is an urban environment, densely populated, someone who wants security or the status of owning this 'fighting' type of dog.

All of these dynamics add up to an increased chance of an interaction that could be dangerous to another human or another dog. This is an aggressive dog whose mouth and jaws are designed and bred to inflict max damage...holding on with a bite force that is unmatched in canine world. When you couple that with an untrained handler, you have a deadly combination. Oddly, as a breed on the whole, they can be a loving sweet dog in the right situation.

Personally, I've been around big dogs such as Dobermans, German Shepherds, Mastiffs, Boxers and a few Pit Bulls, but only an aggresive Pit bull scares the crap out of me. I feel, though, when I was fearful it had more to do with the dog's handlers NOT being trained properly.

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@Foxfyre,

Yes Foxfyre I am sure you can dig up such studies especially as they are now the devil dog just as the Dobeman was once the devil dog however the studies I had seen place the big and loving German Shepherd as the breed with the worst record in this regard not the Pitt Bull.

Now I happen to live in one of the few areas where Pitt Bulls are indeed outlaw as you would wish and you can not go into a vet without seeing a poster on his/her wall with that information along with a warning on how dangerous this breed of dog happen to be.

When I ask my vet why the hell he is posting such nonsense he did not try to defend it but told me he is required by law to post it on his wall.

Now the result of this law there is no lack of Pitt bulls however thank to the law it is far less likely that they will get normal vet care including rabies shots or licenses and every once in a blue moon some children will see their loving family pet taken away from them.

Most of the people with them that I know being responsible people try to handled the situation by registering them as some other breed of dog and by trying to keep on the good side of their neighbors.

It a damn shame that the new media had turn a breed of dog into a public enemy and by the way when was the last time you read a news story about an attack by another breed of dog Foxfye? From the news you would assume that the only dog that attack humans from time to time is the Pitt Bull.

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@Ragman,

I'm sure that a large percentage of pitbull attacks are a result of incompetent or irresponsible ownership. But incompetent or irresponsible ownership isn't limited to just pit bull owners so the higher percentage of attacks from certain breeds must reasonably be associated with the breed as much as with the owners.

And an alarmingly high number of the most savage attacks, especially involving children, have occurred from sweet, loving pit bulls who had showed absolutely no aggressive tendencies previously, were unprovoked, and unexpected. Earlier in this thread, we have posted several cases where such has happened.

So it isn't always a training/discipline issue. Pit bulls were bred to be hunting/fighting dogs and I think that is ingrained in their dna just as the compulsion to herd or retrieve or swim or dig is ingrained in other breeds bred for other purposes. And I think all too often some mysterious trigger, something we have no way of identifying, sets loose the aggressive savagery that we too often see in Pit Bulls.

There is no way that I think responsible adults who have done their homework should allow one of these dogs anywhere near kids.

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@Ragman,

Ragman anyone can turn any breed of dog into a mean and aggressive animal the military have programs to do so.

If the Foxfyre of the world could wave a magic wand and kill off all the Pitt Bulls in the world the result will be those people who wish for aggressive dogs will turn to other breeds of large dog with the same results.

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@Foxfyre,

And an alarmingly high number of the most savage attacks, especially involving children, have occurred from sweet, loving pit bulls who had showed absolutely no aggressive tendencies previously, were unprovoked, and unexpected. Earlier in this thread, we have posted several cases where such has happened.
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Nonsense.................and remember I am old enough to remember when such nonsense was being written about Dobmans almost word for word as a matter of fact.

You could take such comments from the time period of the 1950s/1960s and just used find and replaced to replace one breed with another.

Second the total death rate from all breed of dogs attacks in the US is far less then a 100 a year in fact more in the range of 30 or so.

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@Foxfyre,

We're in total agreeement. The evidence seems to be that the dog can be random and unpredictable. My thought here is that through better public awareness and handler (as well as breeder) education, this might help reduce the amount of casualties. It is clear that the severity of injuries when they occur from this dog is at the top of the list. Irresponsible breeding and breeders are making this matter even worse.

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@BillRM,

BillRM: you have failed to acknowlesdge the information provided. Other breeds haven't the massive bite force, the ability to bite and hold on coupled with the aggressive tendencies and unpredictability. You seem uninformed and aren't listening to facts. Spend time learning about pit bull attacks and case studies and you will learn this matter is not a case of media hype.

I'm not for outlawing or destroying pit bulls or any dog breed, for that matter. I am for restrictions and revision to regualtion on breeders and who the sell these dogs to. I think something like a mandatory 'owner/handler's' course be a requirement for a sale. If you fail the course, or have a police record (for drug or armed offenses), you can't be sold the dog. If afterward, the dog becomes involved in a biting incident, the owner as well as the breeder should be fine and/or have their license removed, depending on the damages or offense.

1 Reply

@Ragman,

Oh Ragman so you do not think that a Dobman have enough bit force to harm you greatly or even kill you!!!!!!!

All the other breeds of large dogs are harmless compare to the devil dog the Pitt Bull is that your position?

Give me a break to me a Dobman coming at me with blood in his eyes is just as great a risk as any Pitt Bull.

And I been around both breads of dogs.

As a matter of fact I once saw a girlfriend Dobman clear two blocks of people when he got away from us. Never saw people get off the street in so fast a manner.

When I got to him he place his feet in the manner dogs will when they do not desire to come with you and as he was not even wearing a collar at the time I needed to pick him up in a fireman carry and carry him home those two blocks.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Where is it that I wrote anything about other dogs such as Dobermans couldn't be deadly? Research of the evidence shows the bite force of a pit bull is unmatched. However, no one here said that a Doberman's bite is not dangerous.

Sorry, but after reading your post I feel your anecdotes have no relevance, either.

Take a look at this Youtube video on bite forces of typical big dogs:

Bite force competition. Pitbull, Rottweiler, and Shepherd

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7jhrxy0HKs

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@Ragman,

Ragman wrote:

We're in total agreeement. The evidence seems to be that the dog can be random and unpredictable. My thought here is that through better public awareness and handler (as well as breeder) education, this might help reduce the amount of casualties. It is clear that the severity of injuries when they occur from this dog is at the top of the list. Irresponsible breeding and breeders are making this matter even worse.

I can deeply appreciate how much somebody can love and care about their dog. I grew up with a little bad tempered monster who was fiercely protective of his own family and seemed to have an uncanny ability to identify people as family even if he had never met them. But if he didn't like you....well, people would drive into the driveway and honk to be sure we had him corraled before they exited their cars. But he was small and when he did bite he bit and released and backed off doing little or no damage.

But here are some statistics I don't think we have posted on this thread before:

Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada
September 1982 to November 13, 2006

Be sure to compare the pit bull attacks to all other breeds:
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html

(I believe pit bulls make up about 1% of licensed dogs in the USA. At any rate it is a fairly small number.)

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@Foxfyre,

Here's the link I intended to post:
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%201982%20to%202006%20Clifton.pdf

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