Where was God during the Holocaust?

Maybe just maybe, God is full of crap and can't actually influence anything, or maybe he just doesn't care, were is there any physical evidence of even one miracle.

Further thought maybe God was punishing the jewish people for nailing his son to the cross!!!! I think any dad would be well annoyed if someone done that to his kid. Or maybe they were getting punished for not accepting the new teachings

Finally, maybe theres no god at all. Its funny how many people miss that point.

If He wasn't crucified, He couldn't be Resurrected, and then there'd be no Christianity. It had to be played out as it happened. And Jews did not reject Jesus, since in the New Testament the "multitudes that rejoiced when He entered Jerusalem" where Jews. Jews rejected Gentiles (aka Romans) as co-religionists. And the Gentiles (aka Romans) that became Christians wanted to make Christianity a separate religion from Judaism.

So, if you would like to be intellectually honest, rather than regurgitate the popular culture of "Jews rejecting Christ," accept the fact that Jews even earlier, as those Hebrews, never really felt warmly to the other wandering tribes.

The simple fact, in my opinion, is that Judaism is an elitist religion, just like some upscale denominations in Protestantism. It's easier to show contempt for Jewish elitism, since they are a minority. Protestants of all denominations tend to bond together, I believe. And Protestants are a harder adversary than a lot of other people. Most people, I believe, that show contempt for Jews are just your average bully.

All that assumes that there is any fact in the bible not just regurgitated stories from other myths. The reason christians like jewish people these days is so they can give them their holy land, push them all into it and await the 2nd coming. If it wasn't for that small fact there would be allot less jewish people in the world today, and yes they are an elitist religion, and their influence reaches high, their biggest problem is that they are few in number.

As for the holocaust, well that was an act of pure evil on minority sections of the community (Not just jewish people), why god let it happen, well only he knows. Maybe the reasons are just not known to us, but if laid down in a gods point of view would be understandable. Maybe the good escape life on this planet for an eternal wonderful heaven, while the evil recycle on the planet. At the end of the day we all die, whats it matter how we go about doing it, the final result is the same.

Foofie wrote:

If He wasn't crucified, He couldn't be Resurrected, and then there'd be no Christianity. It had to be played out as it happened. And Jews did not reject Jesus, since in the New Testament the "multitudes that rejoiced when He entered Jerusalem" where Jews. Jews rejected Gentiles (aka Romans) as co-religionists. And the Gentiles (aka Romans) that became Christians wanted to make Christianity a separate religion from Judaism.

So, if you would like to be intellectually honest, rather than regurgitate the popular culture of "Jews rejecting Christ," accept the fact that Jews even earlier, as those Hebrews, never really felt warmly to the other wandering tribes.

The simple fact, in my opinion, is that Judaism is an elitist religion, just like some upscale denominations in Protestantism. It's easier to show contempt for Jewish elitism, since they are a minority. Protestants of all denominations tend to bond together, I believe. And Protestants are a harder adversary than a lot of other people. Most people, I believe, that show contempt for Jews are just your average bully.

Perhaps it has escaped your notice that God has determined these atrocities shall not continue indefinitely. That his schedule does not agree with ours is not relevant.

i think that satan may have gotten the upperhand. god may still be out there doing minor miracles such as those in lourds etc but may not have the power to do the more grand scale stuff. its a simple assumption seeing as there is more evil in the world and evil is easier to achieve.

nips wrote:

i think that satan may have gotten the upperhand. god may still be out there doing minor miracles such as those in lourds etc but may not have the power to do the more grand scale stuff. its a simple assumption seeing as there is more evil in the world and evil is easier to achieve.

I disagree. Evil is just as difficult to achieve as good. I mean, the Holocaust required planning. It required many ordinary German citizens to build the rails, to build the camps, to produce the zyklon B, to make the specialised showers and rat the Jews out and so forth. Frankly, it would have been much easier for Hitler to just ignore the Jews completely.

neologist wrote:

Perhaps it has escaped your notice that God has determined these atrocities shall not continue indefinitely. That his schedule does not agree with ours is not relevant.

Funny, though, isn't it? If he is all-loving, shouldn't he get on with it as soon as possible? Don't you think he waited a tiny bit too long?. . .

I don't think the Nazis could have ignored the Jews, since the Jewish culture is sort of an antithesis of the Teutonic Hero culture of the Nazis. The two cultures were in conflict, just like the wandering Gypsy culture was in conflict, or the outspoken clergy culture was in conflict.

All competing cultures had to be eliminated according to the Nazi beliefs. That's why, I believe, we needed to enter the war, regardless of Germany declaring war on the U.S.

Well, if he acted now, where would you stand?

Foofie wrote:

I don't think the Nazis could have ignored the Jews, since the Jewish culture is sort of an antithesis of the Teutonic Hero culture of the Nazis. The two cultures were in conflict, just like the wandering Gypsy culture was in conflict, or the outspoken clergy culture was in conflict.

All competing cultures had to be eliminated according to the Nazi beliefs. That's why, I believe, we needed to enter the war, regardless of Germany declaring war on the U.S.

Which wouldn't have happened. The US failed to enter both World War I and World War II until they were attacked first. And I may be wrong on this matter, but it didn't seem to me as if any of the other nations really cared much about what Nazi Germany was doing, certainly not before Hitler started his aggressive military campaigns anyway.

Regardless, it's pointless to speculate what could have happened. You may be right. You might not be. All I wanted to point out was that evil is as difficult to achieve as good is.

neologist wrote:

Well, if he acted now, where would you stand?

I'd still be sceptical to tell you the truth. Any really advanced alien (if one exists, which I do not believe one does) could come along and claim to be God. Their advanced technology could make them, to our minds, indistinguishable from gods.

Although, I'd guess I'd move more towards agnosticism instead of atheism.

All of which doesn't change the fact that God didn't seem to be there to stop the Holocaust from going too far.

I think, perhaps, you are not reading the substance of Wolf's argument, Foo.

neologist wrote:

I think, perhaps, you are not reading the substance of Wolf's argument, Foo.

The word substance means nothing and everything. What do you mean?

Stop assuming there is a God to intervene. You can only then discuss with those that subscribe to the concept of a God that is involved with our lives.

What I find particularly offensive about this thread's basic question, which I've heard from many people over decades, implies that:

a) There is a God that exists, and is involved with us on Earth, and would therefore be capable to stop Nazis from killing innocent people, if:

b) He (God) thought that these innocent people being killed should be saved. So, therefore:

c) Since those innocent people being killed were not saved by God, they therefore must not be so innocent after all, and were being killed for a reason. So:

d) The killers of those innocent people were doing God's work, in effect.

TOTAL CRAP enjoyed by anti-Semites throughout two millenia.

But, this logic is not new. For centuries good Christians believed that Jews had to wander the ends of the Earth (aka Wandering Jew) for punishment/penance for rejecting Christ. So, many people were happy that Jews, not only didn't have a homeland, but were persecuted in whatever land they found themselves as a guest.

But, far be it for me to change the thinking of anyone. Many people's beliefs are just too ingrained.