It is tougher to be feminine and resolute than to be manly

Define manly.

Re: It is tougher to be feminine and resolute than to be man


Where'd this come from?

Can you kindly elucidate your thesis?

It would be a good thing if Hillary (who will almost certainly come in second place) were gracious in defeat, loyal to the Democratic party and supportive of the Democratic nominee.

I don't know if these traits are masculine or feminine... although plenty of men have shown them through the years.

I just envisioned a WWF tag team match, in context of this thread. Very funny thought.

What a disappointment, I was really ready to see the A2K "men" (the usual suspects) have a real misogynist funfest.

Are you suggesting that a woman can't be a misogynist?

((If someone is going to rub warm oil on my back, I feel more comfortable if it is a woman)).

Not at all.In fact, I stated a day or two ago that most men and women in our culture are misogynists. Do a search.

But there are a few creeps here who take misogyny to a new level.

Me too!

Me too!

What a feminist looks like

I am most certainly not a feminist.

There are a couple of basic problems with feminism that keeps me from either respecting or trusting it.

First, feminism claims to be about equality of the genders, but there are several areas; including issues of parenting and custody, and reproductive rights where there has been no interest in the rights of the male half of the human race.

Second is the internal contradictions of "feminism" that make it useless as an ideology. Is sex good, or bad? Is pornography "liberating" to women, or is it enslaving. Are woman who choose to stay at home with their children heroes or traitors.

I am all for equality. Feminism is a bunch of bunkum.

epbrown, that's too canned.

Feminism, to me, is merely that we are equal to men. Period. We deserve the same pay, the same considerations, the same rights, etc.

Right now the pendulum has swung over a little to one side, but it will swing back to centre and equalize out. I don't want to hear any grief about that because it's about one nanosecond of what men have enjoyed up till now - in Western Culture. In other cultures, it's still the old way.

Historically, women have always been treated as second-class citizens, not being able to vote, to have their voices heard, to make decisions, to go to university, etc. until recently. So yeah, the rights are with women at the moment, but isn't it about time? And how many years have we been "enjoying" this?

Doesn't really surprise me that you're not a feminist. Poor baby. You have to live through a few years of inequality. Try it from our side.

Equality is equality.

Feminism does not mean equality, if it did it would simply be called equality. I believe in civil rights without having to give myself a cute tag based on a ethnicity, or sexual orientation. Why is gender politics the only area that needs its own cute tag based on one group?

Look this "women had it hard, and now men can suffer a bit" is unhealthy. It is not a good way to look at society. It is not a good way to look at individual relationships. Why the need to pit the needs of women against the needs of men?

To me, there are two issues involved.

1) How can we have a society that if fair, functional, and beneficial to its citizens?

2) How can I have personal relationships that are fulfilling?

First, I support many of the issues that are identified with "feminism" from choice, to fair pay to laws and programs against domestic violence. But feminism as a ideology goes much further... packaging sensible political policies with a dogma that goes too far. I am also upset that male concerns are brushed aside (even here). Let's talk sensible policies without creating a dogmatic ideology.

For the second issue... personal relationships are personal. Feminists as a movement or an ideology have no business butting in. If two adults want a traditional relationship, or if one wants to pay another for sex, or if one wants to earn money posing for a magazine another wants to buy... what business is that of anyone but the people involved?

Feminists can be as self-righteous and intrusive as any other religious fundamentalist.

Yeah, yeah, you're all for fairness and equality NOW. Huh.

Don't you get it? It's a natural progression of things. In time, it will all balance out.

It's started already, with divorce settlements and custody arrangements being more balanced than even a few years ago.

GMAFB.

You want what you want when you want it.

Give it time.

Women were subjugated for too long, as were other groups. Their day is now and unfortunately, the white male is on the bottom. I'm only saying BIG DEAL because most of the world was subjugated to men, to white men, in particular, for so long, so any whining from your corner is a) to be expected and b) barely tolerable.

All I can say is quit whining. Men had it made for centuries; so a few years of suffering, big deal.

Come on Mame... you are being silly.

The idea that the "white male" is now at the bottom is ludicrous (if not offensive).

The issues that I have brought up were simply examples to demonstrate that feminism is often useless and hypocritical. They need to be addressed, but the ideology called feminism isn't going to help.

All I am saying is that feminism is bunkum.

"Here I am, caught in the middle again".....

This is what Doris Lessing had to say about what feminism has become:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1491085.stm


While I disagree with E_Brown about feminism being bunkum, I can also synpathize with him. I raised two sons who found the world of feminism to be confusing and sometimes irrational.

They are in their 30's now but when they were in their early teens, one of them came to me and mentioned having opened a door for a girl at school and then having her yell at him and call him a chauvinist. Well obviously, this wasn't a traumatic event, but it shows how ridiculous any movement can become when it takes itself too seriously.

I went on to suggest he continue being polite and considerate and to point out that he had seen me open doors for men who had their arms full.

To me, whenever feminism trashes men in general, they (the feminists) lower themselves to a mean-spirited level that isn't at all what feminism should be about.

I agree with you, Mame, that most, if not all, movements have tended to go too far and then settle back to a position of normalcy. I think that is what has been happening for a few years now.

Civil rights is about everyone and that is what I will always fight for.

Some of you need to watch this (again if you watched it once)

Bunny rabbit:

Hillary was sort of using Rocky as a metaphor in her toughness for her campaign in Philadelphia. Obama criticized her as Rocky is a fictional character but really based on a boxer who fought Muhammed Ali in Nebraska or some place. Ali wanted to give an opening to any fighter just like 'American Idol' is doing for the every day person at a shot to stardom.

Geez louise, do I have to come over here?