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My opinion on a 'catch fire quick' topic

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2003 03:47 pm
That crap about conversions is just that--crap. I could run off on-line and come up with dozens of similarly anectdotal stories of those who became agnostic or atheistic. It may look good in print, but like the rest of Maliagar's non-arguments, it is superficial and unsupportable in any valid forensic context.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2003 03:59 pm
Agreed. It's anecdotal in nature.
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maliagar
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2003 04:01 pm
Setanta wrote:
That crap about conversions is just that--crap.


Always? Or only when atheists become Christians? Laughing

Quote:
I could run off on-line and come up with dozens of similarly anectdotal stories of those who became agnostic or atheistic.


I'm sure. But the real question is: Why an enlightened, self-possessed, self-made, self-confident, free-thinking, afraid-of-nothing, thoroughly rational, atheist-secularist would ever become a Christian? Maybe "the light" is not as definitive as you think? Not as convincing as you take it to be? Not as solid as you believe? Perhaps atheism can be also put into question by those who remain open minded? Perhaps the old objections against Christianity become meaningless for those who continue their search?

And this means that, maybe, one day, even you could become a Christian too... :wink: [hey, you never know...]

Unless, of course, your embrace atheism blindly and fanatically, as many undoubtedly do...

:wink:
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EileenM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2003 04:53 pm
Hehe!! told you it was a "catch fire quick" topic!!
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Sep, 2003 09:59 pm
maliagar, you mentioned in another thread that you, like some of the secularists here, had 'been there, done that'. Care to enlighten us?
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2003 12:49 am
I see religion as a crutch for those frightened little minds who are unable to come to terms with the billion to one accident that is their existence.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2003 04:47 am
maliagar wrote:
Always? Or only when atheists become Christians? Laughing


To demonstrate the force of your arguments (no force at all)--simply substitute "catholic" in every statement where you've used atheist:

Are converstions crap? Or only when catholics become atheists? Laughing much louder than you.

Quote:
I'm sure. But the real question is: Why an enlightened, self-possessed, self-made, self-confident, free-thinking, afraid-of-nothing, thoroughly rational, atheist-secularist would ever become a Christian? Maybe "the light" is not as definitive as you think? Not as convincing as you take it to be? Not as solid as you believe? Perhaps atheism can be also put into question by those who remain open minded? Perhaps the old objections against Christianity become meaningless for those who continue their search?

And this means that, maybe, one day, even you could become a Christian too... :wink: [hey, you never know...]

Unless, of course, your embrace atheism blindly and fanatically, as many undoubtedly do...

:wink:


No, the real question is why an benighted, self-doubting, dependent, indoctrinated, constantly trepidacious, always irrational Catholic would ever become an atheist--although, of course, the answer is self-evident. You have no argument here, as Craven and I and so many others have pointed out. You quote your superstitions, and call this open-mindedness, as though you were somehow a bold thinker, freeing yourself from the bonds of thousands of years of rigid atheism, when, of course, you are a sad case who cannot progress beyond the bounds of a truly monolithic and rigid institutionalized superstition.

Wilso has put it quite to the point:

Wilso wrote:
. . . frightened little minds who are unable to come to terms with the billion to one accident that is their existence.


Save your cutesy crap like the "lol" and the "wink" for the adolescent types on-line who are the only ones who might consider that you have an argument to offer. So far, you offer only anectdocal suppositions and straw man arguments. As i pointed out, there is just as much anectdotal evidence for Catholics becoming atheists--i'll not bother because its a waste of time for a closed mind like yours which never has explored other possibilities than your superstition. You are the one twisting yourself into knots to support the majority thesis--it is truly pathetic that you try to portray yourself as an original thinker, swimming against the tide. This is not your thread, and i'll participate as i please--but i'll not repsond to you any longer, because you offer nothing but faded, shop-worn ideas, and your only rhetorical devices are to sneer, to set up pathetic straw men you are confident of knocking down, and to dress up your rigid traditionalism as a new freedom of thought.

Last you'll hear from me, you're not worth my time.
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2003 04:52 am
I want to know who he's trying to convince.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2003 04:53 am
Likely himself, Wilso, as he certainly doesn't have a shot with any of us . . .
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2003 05:54 am
Setanta wrote:
Likely himself, Wilso, as he certainly doesn't have a shot with any of us . . .


he he, I was thinking exactly the same thing. Laughing
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2003 05:59 am
and here i was on the verge, the very edge, the thin ice of being blinded by the light of the holy see, only to realize i was in Vegas.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2003 08:31 am
Yeow -- Sin City! I don't think you'd see maliagar there but then I understand Bill Bennett has seen the hypocrisy of his ways and given up gambling. maliagar hasn't given up gambling here -- that anyone would buy his spin for the Catholic religion.
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husker
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2003 09:06 am
dyslexia wrote:
and here i was on the verge, the very edge, the thin ice of being blinded by the light of the holy see, only to realize i was in Vegas.


Yer funny D!!!
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2003 09:28 am
The blinking neon gave it away.
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maliagar
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2003 11:46 am
Boys, I've been reduced to speechlessness by the power of your "arguments" (thank God I can still type...)

Jean Paul Sartre anecdotal? He was a cardinal in the Atheist Church, a guru of the secularist religion, a pastor of lost souls seeking to remain lost but together. He probably even was your patron saint...

[For those of you with a Jewish background (or interested in women issues), check the story of the Jewish-atheist philosopher Edith Stein, who became a Catholic, a nun, and was killed by the Nazis in a concentration camp...]

So, again, SETANTA:

The real question is: Why an enlightened, totally redeemed, fully emancipated, afraid-of-nothing, thoroughly rational, free-thinking, self-possessed, self-made, self-confident, self-sufficient, self-filled, atheist-secularist would ever become a Christian?

Maybe "the light" is not as definitive as you think? Not as convincing as you take it to be? Not as solid as you believe? Not as trustworthy as you trust? Perhaps atheism can be also put into question by those who remain open minded? Perhaps the old objections against Christianity become meaningless for those who do not stop searching?

And this means that, maybe, one day, even you could become a Christian too... :wink: [hey, you never know...]

Unless, of course, your embrace atheism passionately, blindly and fanatically, as many do...

:wink:

Quote:
No, the real question is why an benighted, self-doubting, dependent, indoctrinated, constantly trepidacious, always irrational Catholic would ever become an atheist--although, of course, the answer is self-evident.


If the answer is self-evident, then it is not a real question... [are we indulging in empty rhetoric here? Rolling Eyes ]

Quote:
You have no argument here, as Craven and I and so many others have pointed out.


You've pointed out several one or two liners, and plenty of visceral, deeply-felt, suspiciously angry adjectives. Arguments? Not one.

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You quote your superstitions, and call this open-mindedness...

Begging the question. Typical among blind believers.

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...as though you were somehow a bold thinker...


Bold? Of course! :wink:

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...freeing yourself from the bonds of thousands of years of rigid atheism...


Not me but the types like you (at least, trying to).

Quote:
you are a sad case


It must be a very deep sadness, for I don't feel it. [Hey, you don't seem to be too happy either... angry sounds more like it... Is atheism to blame?]

Quote:
who cannot progress beyond the bounds of a truly monolithic and rigid institutionalized superstition.


Save your creed for your fellow brothers.

Quote:
Save your cutesy crap like the "lol" and the "wink"...


It's free.

Quote:
...for the adolescent types on-line...


You sound pretty... ahem... "youthful" to me.

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i'll not bother because its a waste of time for a closed mind like yours...


You bothered alright with this one...

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which never has explored other possibilities than your superstition.


You seem to know a lot about me. Are you spying on me?

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it is truly pathetic...


Boy, you're a passionate man!

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portray yourself as an original thinker....


Did I?

Quote:
swimming against the tide.


That's for sure.

Quote:
This is not your thread, and i'll participate as i please--but i'll not repsond to you any longer...


All I can say is I'll continue to miss your powerful arguments.

Quote:
because you offer nothing but faded, shop-worn ideas...


And you have plenty of adjectives. I wonder why you take this soooo personally.

Quote:
and your only rhetorical devices are to sneer, to set up pathetic straw men you are confident of knocking down, and to dress up your rigid traditionalism as a new freedom of thought.


Traditionalism? Absolutely! Rigid? Wrong. A lot of anger on your part? You bet!

Quote:
Last you'll hear from me, you're not worth my time.


Well, you certainly invested a lot of energy in this long message...

:wink:
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2003 01:00 pm
Phoenix32890 wrote:
All that LibertyD said plus socialization, and a consistent current of comfort. I think that many people like the stability of going to church, and meeting up with like minded people. In a world where people have become more and more isolated, a church may be a place where a person can relax, and feel at home. It is sort of an extended family.


I agree. Where I live there is a large elderly community where lots of people like to gather at church to socialize. I've also seen that the same thing goes for funerals. On the other hand, there are those who love to preach and I personally stay as far as I can get from those people.
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2003 01:08 pm
I have a few aunts that come by to visit with my mother who are religious and listening to them sometimes is exausting. They have these long conversations about their dreams and talk about what they mean, etc... They think that your dreams are messages from god or spirits of people who have died. I've made myself a sitting room upstairs out of a spare bedroom just to have a place to get away when they start with the religious stuff, LOL!
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2003 02:18 pm
I had an aunt who was a carpenter. She went blind, but continued her work, despite what the family said. One day, she accidentally nailed her hand to a 2 X 4 and bled to death. We didn't care much really, she was crazy, and just a carpenter aunt.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2003 02:22 pm
Shocked
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Sep, 2003 02:56 pm
Erm, it's metaphor....
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