My opinion on a 'catch fire quick' topic

I think that's a pretty good opinion, Eileen. Religion should never be used as a crutch.

Nice.

So why do people use religion as a crutch?

Why do people use a crutch as a crutch?

Eileen, I'm sure there are many more reasons than I can think of -- but off the top of my head, I think that people use religion as a crutch out of laziness -- they don't want to have to make up their own minds about what they need to do with their lives. They want to be told how to live their lives rather than deal with making decisions on their own. OR they do it out of socialisation, having seen everyone they've grown up with rely on religion alone to get them through tough times -- whether or not it actually worked or not. Then, there's always that guilty touch of "If you don't believe, then you're an ultimate sinner" to that.

And then there are those who are lonely and find solace and companionship in religions that promise them peace of mind -- or those who are looking for a fight and find it in religion.

In all those ways (and many more) religion is used as a crutch.

All that LibertyD said plus socialization, and a consistent current of comfort. I think that many people like the stability of going to church, and meeting up with like minded people. In a world where people have become more and more isolated, a church may be a place where a person can relax, and feel at home. It is sort of an extended family.

Want to say for the record that I do know plenty of very smart, un-lazy, social, and ambuiguity-tolerating people who are religious. While it is sometimes used as a crutch, I don't think it always is.

I agree, Sozobe...I was only talking about those who use it as a crutch. There's nothing wrong with religion itself, IMHO.

I think the fact that people are always making up romantic sounding analogies to understand religion says somthing about it.

To think that people hate, threaten, discriminate, and murder others because of their lack of understanding religion says something about it

Religion is the opiate of the masses. Why do people take drugs? Because it makes them feel good and for the moment relieves them of their problems. The same can be said about religion

Re: My opinion on a 'catch fire quick' topic
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Let's play with this interesting analogy.

If religion is the umbrella, what about the rope and the void below? What do they represent?

Notice that, for the purposes of this analogy, umbrella and crutch play similar roles--helping us remain in balance (forget about the negative connotation of "crutch", taken from other contexts).

Now, what if we read the analogy differently?

(1) The rope representing religion (tight, narrow, apparently unsupported although its extremes are well tied to something that is beyond our reach, supporting our whole being from falling into the void and certain death), and

(2) Our use of the umbrella to find balance representing our own personal way of situating ourselves in this sole support (religion).

Notice that the void is always there, regardless of how we walk the rope (if we walk it at all), and of how we personally balance the umbrella...


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Re: My opinion on a 'catch fire quick' topic



Then again, a person who wants to get from point "a" to point "b" doesn't have to pretend there is only one way to accomplish that. They don't have to suppose the only way to do it is by walking across a rope stretched over an abyss.

They find another, more intelligent, way to get from "a" to "b" -- perhaps by simply keeping their feet on the ground and walking the distance.

And if they do that, they may discover that the void is not always there - at least, not always under them.

But that takes imagination - and people who use religion as a crutch often are lacking that essential, because their religion often co-opts their imaginations with its own.

The "void" is only under people who want it to be there. For the others, that void is simply the air above their heads.

The umbrella?

Hey, maybe it is raining. Put the umbrella to the use for which it was intended.

There are talented tightrope walkers who don't need the umbrella and will not fall.

exactly my point, Lightwizard, you do not 'need' an umbrella. the rope is essentially life. It is unsteady, unpredictable and scary. It can not be religion because not all people have a religion. The whole point of the annalogy is that we (people in general) are the tight rope walkers. We don't need an umbrella, for some it may help for others it may just get in their way. But we walk down the same rope. We LIVE in the same world but where we have come from (point A) and where we are going (point B) are going to be personal.

Not exactly.



So, some of them need whatever help they can get.

Staying within the parameters of your analogy, some people would be "better prepared" to walk the rope than others. Hence, those who are insecure about their path would still need the umbrella (religion). The others are so secure of each step they take, that they don't need guidance, support, or a balancing tool. They are the masters of the universe. Perhaps they can even walk above the void, grow wings, and fly towards infinity...

This fits perfectly with the secularist creed which seeks to disregard traditional religion as a "crutch", and to divinize the individual.



That makes sense. But, to what extremes is it attached? And what about the void?


I dispute this. Of course, it depends on our definition of religion. If religion is defined as a belief in a transcendent God, probably not all people have a religion.

However, if religion is defined as a foundational belief or set of beliefs that gives our lives foundation, grounding, direction, and purpose, then everybody has and needs a religion (or a faith). And if anybody claims that he has built for himself this foundation through reason, he hasn't questioned his own "accomplishments" radically enough (for, why should we assume that reason or trusting our five senses is the way to go? Why not be irrational?).

This reminds me of the story of Baron Munchausen, seeking to get himself out of the swamp (the void) by pulling his own hair. Needless to say, that's not the way of getting out of anywhere. The only way of getting out of the swamp (or of not falling in the void) is by getting hold of something that is solidly grounded in something other than ourselves (our individual reason, our individual senses, etc.). At one point or another, we all have no other choice but to trust and embrace a creed (faith) that we cannot totally prove, but that will provide guidance and purpose to our walk.

And this is a human condition we all share, whether we like it or not. So the real question is not to be or not to be religious, but which religion is best suited to what the fullness of our human condition.

So, in the analogy I propose, every one of us is a tight rope walker. We spend our lives walking it.

The rope would be the given ground on top of which we walk towards a destiny (note that the rope presents us with a linear path). It is impossible to move forward without the rope (the foundation). For some of us, the rope may be the Christian path. For others, the Muslim path. For others, the atheist or secularist or hedonist paths.

Some people would need an umbrella, and others wouldn't. This means, some people are better grounded and simply accept this given foundation, while others are hesitant and walk insecurely. Some of them may feel that... perhaps... they don't need the rope at all... that they can fly... they toy with danger but are unprepared to simply jump... their head tells them one thing, and their feet another. The umbrella gives them extra assurance. In other words, those who are overconfident in their own abilities and are tempted to forget the rope are the ones who need the "crutch", the umbrella.

Or perhaps some people are not totally comfortable with the rope they walk. It irks them, it annoys them, they are not fully positioned in this rope. Hence, the umbrella.

The void would be a life without a grounding, foundation, direction, and purpose. A life that is always falling. The void is real, for we don't have wings to fly on our own. We are not angels or gods... just grounded humans.

Then the question is: are all ropes equivalent? Id' respond: Not all ropes are equally strong to support everything we are during our walk. Some ropes may be excessively weak, or thin, or fraying. Some of them may have knots and other obstacles for our walk. Some may be worn out.

To what are the extremes of the rope attached? We don't know. We can only look forward, but the end of the rope is distant and we can't tell for sure. We cannot turn and look back either.



I'd say, we all come from the same point A, and are going towards the same point B (whether we see it or not). And both points are most definitively there, for the rope is there. But what are points A or B? We don't know. We just have to keep walking.

:wink:

Tools. We are surrounded by tools.

If someone gives you a hammer, will that now encourage you to go
around hammering whatever you can find?

If someone needs a crutch, but is given an all-purpose religion tool, what
do you suppose they'll do with that religion?

Even an umbrella can harm. Or it can help. "Can".

Do umbrellas cause rain? Do hammers cause houses to be built?

An umbrella can help someone stay on the tight-rope. But what if it's
better to jump off the rope and just walk to town? Does the umbrella
encourage the person stay on a rope too long, too shaky, and too narrow?

Some people walk on a rope. Some sit on it. Some swing back and
forth. Some grab the end and help others to skip rope. The umbrella is
really good because ... uh ... uh ... it's an umbrella. It is what it is.

If you don't jab yourself with the end of the umbrella
then you'll never get the point.

If you insist on walking a tightrope and carrying an umbrella, well you're
gonna have to sell tickets and carry a monkey too. Otherwise people will
think you're crazy.

A mind is like an umbrella. It only works when open. And they work
especially well -- when it's raining.

Umbrellas are for grumpy people who don't enjoy dancing in the
natural, life-giving rain.

A tightrope is much easier to walk if it's looser. The feet can move side
to side much easier, making it like a sidewalk. So why not loosen up, and
drop the bulky umbrella?

The fastest way from point A to point B is often to cut the rope that you
are standing on, then grab and hold the end that's connected to point B.
Be prepared for some disorientation and acceleration, but you will get
there quickly. An umbrella would only slow you down.

Our mind is a tool. What you do with it is up to marketting
representatives. You *need* the umbrella. You *want* the umbrella.
And for a limitted time it's available for 20% off, but you must order now,
only through our exclusive network.

Many have discerned that the umbrella is full of holes and wasn't ever going to work as a parachute regardless. Some have slipped off the tightrope and are floating down into the abyss in a stupor . They believe there is salvation at the bottom of that abyss which is a euphemism for not wanting to accept that death is the end of life. I suggest that believing you are Mary Poppins is some kind of psychological enigma that makes it difficult to discuss from both sides.

Actually, umbrella means "shadow maker"--the original intent was to ward off the rays of the sun. So the religious who use such "umbrellas" are warding off the light . . . the light of knowledge, perhaps? To my mind, it is no accident that education and research are inimical to religion, and that the more extreme among the religious condemn them.