Reply
Sun 16 Mar, 2008 10:15 pm
I have a friend who has two grandchildren ages 5 and 3 both are boys.
She was telling me today that her son told her if the two boys get into a fight they just let the kids work things out without getting involved.
She said one child had a bruised eye and the other one had scratches.
I thought parents were suppose to teach their kids right from wrong. Is this a new way of bringing up children? Who will pay the price later?
I observed something similar when I was at my parent's house at the same time as my sister and her two boys.
Her boys were about 10 and 11 at the time - they're only 17 months apart. They were outside in the backyard playing and I was watching through the picture window in my parent's house, when suddenly they were rolling around on the ground and throwing punches at each other. I was immediately concerned and said, "Sarah, J and K are out there fighting."
She said, "Don't worry about it - they're just fooling around." Well, it looked to me like someone was definitely gonna get hurt- but I didn't feel comfortable overruling her opinion, so I just stayed where I was.
Later, we talked about why our perceptions were so different. I have a boy and a girl - the boy four years older and stockily, athletically built and my daughter has always been very petite. Having grown up with a big brother (same age difference, same physical build) who bossed me around and was rough sometimes - I've just always made sure my son never physically "manhandled" (which is what my mother used to call what my brother did to me) my daughter. So my kids never hit each other or rolled around on the ground. That's why what was an everyday occurrence to my sister looked pretty shocking to me.
I read somewhere that brothers- and brothers who are close in age- are the most competitive of all the possible combinations of siblings.
I don't know if this fighting stuff is "right"- but I guess it happens all the time. I would be afraid though that someone would end up getting hurt - and if the same kid wins all the fights - the other one might develop the "underdog" syndrome.
I had a brother 18 months older.
We fought ALL the time.
aidan
I agree with you. What grandparent would think this would be OK if she let them visit her for a few days? My grandchildren live a few hours from me if they had that kind of behaviour I wouldn't let them spend a week with me as they always do.
dadpad
Do you and your brother have a close relationship today? I would be afraid if my children had that kind of behaviour they would treat other children the same way.
My brothers were 13 months apart. They fought all the time, from children straight into adulthood. When our mother died, there was one final ugly blowout and they didn't see or speak to one another for 3 years, until one was diagnosed with lung cancer. They grew very close after that, until he died.
My surviving brother does NOT talk about it but I know that is a heartache he will carry for the rest of his life.
I'm 48 my brother is STILL a smart arse knowitall.
Boys, especially those close in age, do tend to wrestle each other and throw punches. Sometimes, it's hard to tell if it's play-flighting or serious. More than once, I have waded into such a tangle to break it up, then discovered the pugilists were laughing good-naturedly.
When I was 12 or 13, I used to bare-knuckle box with a schoolmate the same age. We didn't consider it a good fight unless both of us were bleeding. This is typical behavior when the testosterone fog really sets in. For most of us guys, that fog thins when we get older, but traces of it tend to linger. It seems to be part of the animal.
With kids 5 and 3, however, all I see potential injury, rather than questionable fun. A 5-year-old is almost twice the age of a 3-year-old, and he is much better co-ordinated than his younger brother. Simply letting these two go at it seems a very poor idea.
Also, at these ages, what's real and what's fantasy? The older boy might mimic a move he's seen in a cartoon or comic and end up seriously injuring his younger brother.
This appears to be one of those situations where parents carry things a bit too far. Not wanted to disappoint them so you buy them everything. You want to allow your child to learn to make decisions so you let them choose everything for themselves.
I agree that children need to learn how to resolve issues on their own and not have mommy and daddy or another adult jump in whenever there is a dispute. However, they do need to learn what is an appropriate way to handle a dispute. I would think that most adults would not believe an appropriate way to handle a dispute is by fighting. This is almost what the parents are teaching by not stepping in at this point. I try to allow my children to resolve their disputes, but when they begin to handle things in an inappropriate manner, I step in and explain what a better way to handle it.
You cannot do everything for your child, but you need to show and teach them how to handle things. The difficult part is the balance. By not stepping in, these children may end up fighting at school and they will get into big trouble. They will learn that the bigger and stronger you are then you can have your way, etc. This could also result in either bullying or being bullied.
There is a big difference though in arguing fighting/a little rough housing and beating a brother to a pulp. My daughters do fight and they have scratched and bit and hit. But we put a stop to it when it becomes physical (and even when it becomes too vicious verbally). Hitting, biting and scratching is not acceptable.
Linkat,
Many of these male v. male rumbles are not part of any discernible conflict-resolution. Boys simply enjoy the rough-house. Therefore, the fights can arise at any time.
A 5-year-old can, however, be told firmly not to play rough with his younger brother--I know this can likely be achieved, because, when our older daughter was 5, she needed to be forbidden to claw and hammer on her 3-year-old sister. She stopped.
Suitable conflict resolution for the young is a complex topic. However, telling them you will not tolerate violence is pretty straightforward. I'd go for the no-violence rule first, then evolve conflict-resolution in an age-appropriate way: the 5-year-old would need to be taught conflict-resolution differently from the 3-year-old.
As these fights can arise out of nowhere and quickly escalate, kids this age need a constant watchful eye. And maybe a quick hand, as our 5-year-old left a permanent scar on her younger sister's cheek right in front of us! We both tried to grab her arm, but it was too late. Right away, we segued into a "no violence" lecture, complete with a description of consequences if the rule were broken. It never happened again--not so much because we were brilliant parents, but because our older daughter was taken aback by the blood she had caused to run down her sister's cheek. This sight apparently helped her develop some impulse control--in this area, anyway!
Really little kids (up through age 4) seem not to understand the possible implications of rough behavior, but they can be taught to avoid committing it. By age 5, a kid CAN generally comprehend some of his responsibility about rough play, but, usually, you need to stop him and explain first. It seems almost inevitable that a parent will be closing the barn door after the horse in gone, but, even after the fact, one must close that door.
Miklos7 wrote:Linkat,
Many of these male v. male rumbles are not part of any discernible conflict-resolution. Boys simply enjoy the rough-house. Therefore, the fights can arise at any time.
A 5-year-old can, however, be told firmly not to play rough with his younger brother--I know this can likely be achieved, because, when our older daughter was 5, she needed to be forbidden to claw and hammer on her 3-year-old sister. She stopped.
Suitable conflict resolution for the young is a complex topic. However, telling them you will not tolerate violence is pretty straightforward. I'd go for the no-violence rule first, then evolve conflict-resolution in an age-appropriate way: the 5-year-old would need to be taught conflict-resolution differently from the 3-year-old.
As these fights can arise out of nowhere and quickly escalate, kids this age need a constant watchful eye. And maybe a quick hand, as our 5-year-old left a permanent scar on her younger sister's cheek right in front of us! We both tried to grab her arm, but it was too late. Right away, we segued into a "no violence" lecture, complete with a description of consequences if the rule were broken. It never happened again--not so much because we were brilliant parents, but because our older daughter was taken aback by the blood she had caused to run down her sister's cheek. This sight apparently helped her develop some impulse control--in this area, anyway!
Really little kids (up through age 4) seem not to understand the possible implications of rough behavior, but they can be taught to avoid committing it. By age 5, a kid CAN generally comprehend some of his responsibility about rough play, but, usually, you need to stop him and explain first. It seems almost inevitable that a parent will be closing the barn door after the horse in gone, but, even after the fact, one must close that door.
I grew up with all brothers I fully understand the rumble tumble stuff - that is why I stated there is a big difference between rough housing and beating up on a sibling.
Linkat,
Having grown up with all brothers, you definitely know the scene!
May I ask how your parents dealt with bro-on-bro fights?
I can see the value of letting kids work things out for themselves if they have the tools to do so without violence. I don't enjoy playing referee, but I do play coach of both sides sometimes.
As to rough housing, yeah, my kids do that. But there's a difference between playing kung fu or wrestling and smacking each other because one of them called the other an idiot.
My mother broke my brothers up whenever they fought in her presence but she was a working Mom and wasn't there to supervise all day every day. I can remember running around and putting the house back together after their brawls so my mother wouldn't come home from a hard day of work and have to contend with her house torn up because of them. Oh well.
Miklos7 wrote:Linkat,
Having grown up with all brothers, you definitely know the scene!
May I ask how your parents dealt with bro-on-bro fights?
Sis on Bro could be just as bad. Being a sibling you don't see it the same way. Most of the fights I remember were when we were older - my oldest brother could be a really bad bully too. Funny thing was he was bullied by kids at school (probably because he was so annoying) - I used to protect him against the older boys.
I think most of our fights when we were older were when my parents couldn't see them. I remember once I was jumping over a toy in the house, by older brother stuck out his leg to trip me and I went flying landing on my tail bone and smacking my head hard.
He was punished big time. The next morning I could not even move without pain because I had hit my tail bone so hard. He had to do all my chores and he was grounded.
It was pretty much if there was no blood or broken bones then we could fight.
I don't agree with it, myself, but I have two girls now so the fights aren't as physical (except the occassional hitting over the head and scratching). Myself, I try to stop them when it becomes physical.
eoe wrote:My mother broke my brothers up whenever they fought in her presence but she was a working Mom and wasn't there to supervise all day every day. I can remember running around and putting the house back together after their brawls so my mother wouldn't come home from a hard day of work and have to contend with her house torn up because of them. Oh well.
I did the same thing. Not only the fights, but the mess in general. Seems like the boys didn't care if my parents were working or not, they didn't want to help. I always felt bad so I would clean up after them. When I wasn't home and it was a mess, my dad would scream at them bloody murder.
Stumble It!
Tweet This
Bookmark on Delicious
Share on Facebook
Share on MySpace