War in S. America? - What is our Obligation if any

Francis wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:
Clearly the Colombian government believes (or merely asserts) that the Equadoreans cannot or will not limit the FARC's use of their territory.

A realistic stance, as they cannot do it either on their own soil..

Nice phrase, but unfortunately not true. Colombia has scored some important victories over FARC in the last two years, and has recently taken out several of its leaders, reclaiming occupied territory in the process. The successful incursion into Equador was a part of that campaign.

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George, I do believe that it's only wishful thinking from your part.

The Colombian actions and their results in the last two years are pointless in the view of the turmoil that has been Colombia's history in the last 60 years.

You should think about it, as you often try to see the great scheme of things.

But, even thought they do not come from your political side, check some different opinions:

The FARC-EP in Colombia: A Revolutionary Exception in an Age of Imperialist Expansion

Not that I agree with it but it gives a different view...

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There may well be a wishful component to my thinking on this subject as you say. However, I don't think you can make a case for the notion that the Colombian government's struggle with the FARC is "pointless" - if that is your meaning.

I don't dispute the social, economic and political contradictions that have so limited the otherwise great potential of Colombia (and Venezuela, Peru & others as well) for not only the past 60 years, but ever since their transformation in the Spanish Empire. Nor do I suggest that these contradictions will soon be resolved in any of these countries. Instead I am suggesting that important (though not yet decisive) improvements have occurred within the Colombian government & society, and that they have recently enjoyed some important successes in their struggle with the retrograde Marxist FARC movement.

I did read the article you linked, marred as it is by all the Marxist double speak and self-serving labelling. (One of the many perversely amusing contradictions of these shopworn ideas is the observable fact that the only remaining soil favorable to these theories of class warfare, designed for the 19th century European urban industrial revolution, is the feudal, race-stratified and largely agricultural culture of Latin America.) I reject utterly the notion that the class warfare and totalitarian ideas behind the doctrinal aspects (or merely rationalizations) of FARC, and like movements (including that of Chavez), offers any promise at all for the betterment of the lives of the people of the region. If the history of the 20th century has any lesson at all for us, it is surely this. (I readily agree that the article presents a "different view", however rooted in discredited ideas it is, and am quite sure you don't agree with it.)

The article appears to have been written about three years ago. My references were to events that have occurred in the last two years and in recent months particularly.

I don't deny the long-term U.S. involvement with the government of Colombia or the bad side effects it has produced in some areas. As the article noted, it began on a large scale with the Kennedy Administration's attempt to export "progressive" government to the region. There is a basic dilemma here in that one interested in doing such things must choose to either work with and within existing social and government structures, or to start & support revolutionary movements. We, quite naturally, chose the former and, equally naturally, get tainted with accusations of 'imperialism' and of co-conspiracy with whatever existing evils preoccupy the accuser.

The alternative is to do nothing at all and let the forces of international private capital (including our own) exploit the scene.

The last chapters of this story will be written by the people of the region themselves and the choices they make. While there is much to fault in the Colombian government, it is absurd to believe that the FARC offers any improvement.

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Re: War in S. America? - What is our Obligation if any

woiyo wrote:

Getting back to reality, what should the US position be in matters concerning our neighbors to the South? Should we side with Columbia to quite Chavez or stay out since neither pose a clear and present danger to our security?

I believe a War in S. America would pose a danger to the Security of the US.

"Venezuelan television has shown footage of tanks and troops being deployed on the border with Colombia, as tension escalates in the dispute leader Hugo Chavez says could lead to war. But, while the diplomatic crisis is threatening stability in the entire Andean region, so far, only insults have been exchanged.

The crisis erupted when Colombian troops crossed the border into Ecuador killing senior FARC rebel Raul Reyes. US President George W. Bush has weighed into the crisis for the first time behind his ally Colombia, accusing Hugo Chavez of provocation and vowing to oppose any act of aggression.

Ecuador's President Rafael Correa has begun a five nation tour, which includes his ally Venezuela, to lobby for support in the wake of the raid which he's described as a pre-meditated violation of sovereignty.

First stop was Peru where, after a meeting with Correa, President Alan Garcia urged Chavez to stay out of the mix. Columbia's leader Alvaro Uribe has accused both Venezuela and Ecuador of supporting the FARC and wants Chavez tried for aiding genocide.

Both countries have denied the accusation and severed almost all political contact with Bogota. Latest reports suggest, however, that Caracas has relented and re-opened its border crossing points with Columbia, allowing vital commercial trade to resume."

http://www.euronews.net/index.php?page=info&article=473427&lng=1

Without studying any extant treaties between us and Colombia,
I will venture to say that tho we may not have obligations
to Colombia, it 'd be a good idea to kill Chavez
and overthrow his regime..
Its a good idea to kill ALL nazis and commies --
all forms of socialist totalitarianism.
We shud be realists.

David

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Just like that? Don't you think it is a sensitive situation?I think you already know david, my politics are far left. (at least as far as empire building goes)

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OK, fine; let it be a sensitive situation,
but let 's not miss an opportunity
to kill a nazi or a commie.

Its like killing a loose rattlesnake in the house,
or a scorpion, or like an M.D. killing cancer cells, when he gets the chance.

Your sig line amounts to a declaration of war:
of your criminals against my good guys.

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How do you read that in my sig. line? Because that is not how I meant it.

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Amigo wrote:

How do you read that in my sig. line?
Because that is not how I meant it.

" Empty what is full and fill what is empty " =
rob those who have property so that
impoverished criminals who perpetrate the evil
can enjoy the ill gotten plunder; pure socialism.
Marx wud be proud.

Makes me think of Charlie Manson 's gang
raiding Sharon Tate 's estate and her guests.

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My sig. line is from a scene in the movie 'Rescue Dawn' about an American POW in veitnam that escaped . When he got back to the ship the crew asked him how he survived and he said, "I emptied what was full and filled what was empty".

http://rescuedawn.mgm.com/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0462504/trailers-screenplay-E32478-314

(after the ad)

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Re: War in S. America? - What is our Obligation if any

OmSigDAVID wrote:

it 'd be a good idea to kill Chavez
and overthrow his regime..
Its a good idea to kill ALL nazis and commies --
all forms of socialist totalitarianism.
We shud be realists.

David

Communism is merely a flawed political ideology, nothing worth killing over merely for the beliefs.

Assassination is such an extreme form of censorship... rather totalitarian of you. Laughing

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Re: War in S. America? - What is our Obligation if any

Robert Gentel wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
it 'd be a good idea to kill Chavez
and overthrow his regime..
Its a good idea to kill ALL nazis and commies --
all forms of socialist totalitarianism.
We shud be realists.

David

Communism is merely a flawed political ideology,
nothing worth killing over merely for the beliefs.

Assassination is such an extreme form of censorship...
rather totalitarian of you.

Communism is merely a flawed ideology ?
Olympic Class naive.

It murdered literally millions of innocent people,
and it enslaved literally hundreds of millions more,
forcing them to live their in a constant state of terror
of the secret police ( Checka, NKVD, KGB, GRU or whatever else ).

It was obsessed with taking over the world.
It was a form of world government, world slavery.

Its LUCKIER victims only got killed.

I stand by my idea
that killing Chavez is a good plan,
and we shud not pass up the excuse to do it.
Nazis and commies are too dangerous to tolerate.

I am most acutely aware of my personal freedom
( freedom = non-interference from government )
as a result of the Founders' crippling government 37 different ways here,
in the Bill of Rights in 1791. I appreciate my freedom.
I savor it, along with the deaths of nazism and communism.

David

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Amigo wrote:

My sig. line is from a scene in the movie 'Rescue Dawn' about an American POW in veitnam that escaped .
When he got back to the ship the crew asked him how he survived and

he said, "I emptied what was full and filled what was empty".
http://rescuedawn.mgm.com/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0462504/trailers-screenplay-E32478-314

(after the ad)

That is insufficient information to understand the concept.

It appears to have been enuf to convince u
to adopt it as a published signature line.
U identified yourself as a leftist ( commie ? ).

I surmized that u wished to express socialism thru that line.

What was full ?
What was it FULL OF ?

What was empty ?

I don 't understand it.

U might as well have written it in Chinese.

David

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Well it seemed to be sufficient enough information for you to make a declaration of war. Thats alot for something you say might as well be written in Chinese.

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Amigo wrote:

Well it seemed to be sufficient enough information for you to make a declaration of war.
Thats alot for something you say might as well be written in Chinese.

I inferred that u intended it as a declaration of war--
as an exhortation to rob the middle class & the rich for the good of the poor.

I did not declare war, Amigo.

David

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our only obligation is to the u.s.

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Re: War in S. America? - What is our Obligation if any

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Communism is merely a flawed ideology ?
Olympic Class naive.

It murdered literally millions of innocent people,

Communism killed the people literally?

And because "commies" are totalitarian they should all be killed?

I know you think the answer is yes, but I'm just savoring the irony.

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Re: War in S. America? - What is our Obligation if any

Robert Gentel wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Communism is merely a flawed ideology ?
Olympic Class naive.

It murdered literally millions of innocent people,

Quote:
Communism killed the people literally?

It killed them very literally.

Quote:
And because "commies" are totalitarian they should all be killed?

U talked me into it.

Quote:

I know you think the answer is yes, but I'm just savoring the irony.

Yeah; tastes good.
Whenever I feel a little down, I savor the death of communism
to cheer me back up again.

David

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OGIONIK wrote:

our only obligation is to the u.s.

Absolutely right.
Logically, we need to stop the fire before it gets here; not wait for it.

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OmsigDavid
How are you sir?
I am a die hard communinist saturated with GANDH's kindness.
Do you think that communism will face a death?
Or are you of the opinion that this corporate controlled consummate conservative culture will prevail?

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Ramafuchs wrote:

OmsigDavid
How are you sir?

Fine, thank u.

Quote:

I am a die hard communinist saturated with GANDH's kindness.

Yeah; I remember that.

Quote:

Do you think that communism will face a death?

I think that it already DID, like nazism.

Quote:

Or are you of the opinion
that this corporate controlled consummate conservative culture will prevail?

Yes.

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War in S. America? - What is our Obligation if any

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