Loyalty Oaths? I thought this crap stopped after the 50's

Bullshit.

The Shang Dynansty (1300 BCE) had quite a pantheon.

The oracle bone inscriptions (jiaguwen) are essential for our understanding of Shang religion. In the inscriptions we find the names of deified ancestors - former kings - that were worshipped and asked for help by the ruling kings of Yin. An integral part of the Shang religion was the ancestor worship that became later the core of Confucianism and Chinese thinking. The bronze vessels and burial offerings show how the former people have been venerated. The tombs in Anyang and other Shang period sites do not only contain the tomb owner in his richly decorated wooden coffin, but also many tomb offerings of which in most cases only pottery, jade objects and ritual bronze vessels have survived. Furthermore, the whole entourage of the king, like ministers, servants, slaves, concubines, were sacrified and buried together as human sacrifices (renxun 人殉) with their deceased lord.

The Shang worshipped the "Shang Ti." This god ruled as a supreme god over lesser gods, the sun, the moon, the wind, the rain, and other natural forces and places. Highly ritualized, ancestor worship became a part of the Shang religion. Sacrifice to the gods and the ancestors was also a major part of the Shang religion. When a king died, hundreds of slaves and prisoners were often sacrificed and buried with him. People were also sacrificed in lower numbers when important events, such as the founding of a palace or temple, occurred.

Some indians in the old days thought stealing horses was admirable if stolen from somebody outside their own tribe or band, but it was unforgiveable if stolen from their own tribe or band. Stealing is viewed differently in some cultures, and I think religious heritage has some influence on how we view it. In some cultures, there is something called good and bad, in Judeo Christian culture it is more like right and wrong. In other words, good and bad relates to who you did it to rather than what you did.

Also, homosexual practices have been frowned upon or forbidden in most cultures, historically, has it not, primarily because it ends up being detrimental to the culture.

I would contend that almost all laws spring out of some religious foundation or religious belief. All you have to do is study any culture, take Native American culture, and most of what they did and how they governed themselves was almost all tied to how they viewed their gods and the relationship to their gods and each other. This should all be intuitively obvious to the most casual observer.

Name a culture that had no gods.

Humanistic Judaism

By BBC Team

The question of God's existence

Humanistic Judaism doesn't proclaim that there is no God, but it does do without God. It sees no evidence for the existence of a supernatural being. Most Humanistic Jews regard the question of God's existence as either meaningless, or irrelevant.

It finds no meaning in the worship of God, whether or not God exists. So Humanistic Jews do not pray or refer to God or the supernatural, or use worshipful or prayer-like language.


It gives no moral authority to God.

The symbol of Humanistic Judaism combines a human being with the ceremonial Jewish candlestand or menorah, to powerful symbolic effect.




Basic principles
Humanistic Judaism is nontheistic and based on two principles:

Judaism is more than a religion; it is the culture of the Jewish people.
The source of power for solving human problems lies within human beings.
So Humanistic Jews regard Judaism as an ethnic culture that was created by the Jewish people and shaped by Jewish experience.

It did not fall from heaven, and no supernatural being had anything to do with it.


Ethical and spiritual
Humanistic Jews believe that the human moral code comes from people and from the world in which they live.

Humanistic Jews find spiritual satisfaction in secular celebrations of Jewish holidays, study and discussion of Jewish and broader human issues, and action for social justice.

A positive world view
Although they reject God and the supernatural, Humanistic Jews put a very high value on the place of Hebrew language, Jewish history, culture and the ethics and values of Judaism in their lives.

The quotation below gives a flavour of their thinking:

Humanistic Judaism views Jewish history as the story of real people and real events.

The story of the Jews to be found in the Bible and the Talmud contains kernels of truth overlaid with myth and legend. Modern science, archeology, and biblical criticism are revealing the story of the Jewish experience, a story that continues into our own times.

The events of modern times and the literary responses to them are as important as the events and literary responses of ancient times. Theodore Herzl is as significant as Joshua. Golda Meir is as significant as Deborah.

Festivals and family rituals
Humanistic Jews celebrate the traditional Jewish festivals, but with the supernatural elements removed.

They see these festivals as a way of commemorating the shared history, memories, and culture of the Jewish people, and as a way of sharing togetherness with the Jewish community.

Family rituals such as Bar Mitzvahs are a way for a family to restate their values and their togetherness.

Some of us are atheists, some are agnostics, some are ignostics (think that whether or not God exists is irrelevent), some believe in God (not too many). What is important is that we focus on what we can do, not on prayer.

Time immemorial is time extending beyond the reach of memory, record, or tradition. The implication is that the subject referred to is, or can be regarded as, indefinitely ancient. The phrase is one of the few cases in the English Language where the postmodifier is an adjective. Modern historians, anthropologists, and others have often criticized the use of the term as a view of contemporary conditions as without history, i.e. as essential and unchanging in nature.

I don't believe Okie had the Western concept of "God" in mind when he wrote that as that would imply ignorance of the many civilizations that have had pantheons from the Aztecs to the Greeks. I know he is not like that.

Some indians in the old days thought stealing horses was admirable if stolen from somebody outside their own tribe or band, but it was unforgiveable if stolen from their own tribe or band. Stealing is viewed differently in some cultures, and I think religious heritage has some influence on how we view it. In some cultures, there is something called good and bad, in Judeo Christian culture it is more like right and wrong. In other words, good and bad relates to who you did it to rather than what you did.

Also, homosexual practices have been frowned upon or forbidden in most cultures, historically, has it not, primarily because it ends up being detrimental to the culture.

I would contend that almost all laws spring out of some religious foundation or religious belief.[/u] (emphasis added)

You don't have a clue, do you?

Okie's contention is that concepts of right and wrong derive from religion. In response to Joe's comment, he wrote the imperative "Name a culture that had no gods." I pointed out, and did so specifically, that ancient Chinese culture had no gods. You want to drag in the Shang, to attempt to raise a quibble.

I see absolutely no evidence from you that Chinese culture derived concepts of right and wrong from a religious source, either during the Shang, or at any time thereafter, with the exceptions i noted of Jews, Christians and Muslims successfully proselytizing in China.

You don't have a clue, do you?

Okie's contention is that concepts of right and wrong derive from religion. In response to Joe's comment, he wrote the imperative "Name a culture that had no gods." I pointed out, and did so specifically, that ancient Chinese culture had no gods. You want to drag in the Shang, to attempt to raise a quibble.

I see absolutely no evidence from you that Chinese culture derived concepts of right and wrong from a religious source, either during the Shang, or at any time thereafter, with the exceptions i noted of Jews, Christians and Muslims successfully proselytizing in China.

normal haughty tone

I don't believe Okie had the Western concept of "God" in mind when he wrote that as that would imply ignorance of the many civilizations that have had pantheons from the Aztecs to the Greeks. I know he is not like that.

In his question, that you chose to answer, he asked "Name a culture that had no gods."

You mentioned the Chinese and I have shown you that you were wrong.

I think it's obvious who's spraying here.

I know it's difficult for you to realize you were wrong, but I had no idea how far you would try to go not admitting it.

So is the thread entirely off of the original question into insultville yet again?

McGentrix wrote:

I don't believe Okie had the Western concept of "God" in mind when he wrote that as that would imply ignorance of the many civilizations that have had pantheons from the Aztecs to the Greeks. I know he is not like that.

In his question, that you chose to answer, he asked "Name a culture that had no gods."

You mentioned the Chinese and I have shown you that you were wrong.

McGentrix, you are correct, I include all types of Gods from numerous cultures. I have not studied all cultures, but I have done some reading about Native American cultures, enough to know they virtually all had some type of worship.

Even most people that think they have no Gods, probably still have them. It or they may be things more like idols which are forms of Gods, such as celebrities, sports teams, mother earth, even themselves, you name it. People have belief systems in a being or beings, or things supernatural, which motivates codes of moral behavior, from which laws spring from.

Setanta wrote:

You don't have a clue, do you?

Okie's contention is that concepts of right and wrong derive from religion. In response to Joe's comment, he wrote the imperative "Name a culture that had no gods." I pointed out, and did so specifically, that ancient Chinese culture had no gods. You want to drag in the Shang, to attempt to raise a quibble.

I see absolutely no evidence from you that Chinese culture derived concepts of right and wrong from a religious source, either during the Shang, or at any time thereafter, with the exceptions i noted of Jews, Christians and Muslims successfully proselytizing in China.

No, what you wanted to do was come up with a specific example of how Okie was wrong regarding countries with no gods, and did so in you normal haughty tone by saying China "from time immemorial" and you were wrong. Now, you have puffed out your chest and spewed forth your typical drivel in an attempt to hide your shame.

And, by the way, since you want to play stupid little games, Okie did not ask a question. The sentence "Name a culture that had no gods" is not a question, it is an imperative. Look it up if you're still confused about this.