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Conservative Icon William F. Buckley Dies

 
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Mar, 2008 03:50 pm
hawkeye10 wrote:
In any case he was never going to push to make it happen, he was talking about what he believed, not what he was trying to do.


The ideas that he gave voice to are precisely what the people here are responding to. You are missing the point that ideas presented are ideas open to criticism. If an idea is found to be unappealing or repugnant, be sure that it won't go unaddressed.
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hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Mar, 2008 03:56 pm
InfraBlue wrote:
hawkeye10 wrote:
In any case he was never going to push to make it happen, he was talking about what he believed, not what he was trying to do.


The ideas that he gave voice to are precisely what the people here are responding to. You are missing the point that ideas presented are ideas open to criticism. If an idea is found to be unappealing or repugnant, be sure that it won't go unaddressed.


My point is that Buckley would not want it to be any other way. The guy is dead, his ideas were not widely agreed to, but his unholding the concepts of democracy, community, civility, and friendship are his legacy. Not his ideas.
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InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Mar, 2008 04:17 pm
How can we know about Buckley's upholding of the concepts of democracy, community, civility and friendship if not by his ideas about them? Many of his ideas are diametrically opposed to the concepts of democracy (he championed military intervention and occupation), community, civility (he was an apologist for the subjugation of the Amerindians) and friendship (are the two above really that friendly?). How else did he uphold these concepts?
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hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Mar, 2008 05:30 pm
InfraBlue wrote:
How can we know about Buckley's upholding of the concepts of democracy, community, civility and friendship if not by his ideas about them? Many of his ideas are diametrically opposed to the concepts of democracy (he championed military intervention and occupation), community, civility (he was an apologist for the subjugation of the Amerindians) and friendship (are the two above really that friendly?). How else did he uphold these concepts?


By the way he lived his life, day in and day out. I don't know a lot about his ideas, never read a book of his for instance, but my sense for him on TV and his columns was that he tended to be a contrarian, that he would take the unpopular and often unsavory position at times because it was more important that we have a full debate then it was that he personally be seen in a positive light. This is a bit dicey for me personally because I want people to only stick to what they really believe, but he was following the standard rules for debate and I respect that. But talk to people who knew him personally and they will tell you that whatever the product of his intellect he always treated them as an individual and always very well. His friends spanned the ideological spectrum. Human decency trumped ideology with him, democratic process trumped agenda. How rare is that today!!!
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Advocate
 
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Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 09:38 am
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ossobuco
 
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Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 12:28 pm
Interesting column, and interesting Pirandello quote, Advocate.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
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Reply Thu 6 Mar, 2008 05:57 pm
ossobuco wrote:
Ah, memories of a Buckley-Vidal spat..


One of the top ten moments in TV history!

"Call me a neo-nazi one more time you fag and I'll pop you on the nose!"

Buckley lost that one to Vidal by letting him get under his skin, but it was great TV.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
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Reply Thu 6 Mar, 2008 06:00 pm
farmerman wrote:
He and G Gordon Liddy, seemed to be the only Conservatives with senses of humor. Guys of today's conservative screech radio are so damn "unentertaining and super dour" that mid day radio has gotten to be a coast to coast shouting match mixed in with unthinking dittoheads.


You just restrict your exposure to conservatives too closely
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Mar, 2008 06:02 pm
Advocate wrote:
With his use of big words, he was the ultimate pedant. Moreover, he was consistently wrong on the issues.


At least you don't disappoint with grace about the dead
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Finn dAbuzz
 
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Reply Thu 6 Mar, 2008 06:09 pm
hawkeye10 wrote:
I think all of this fretting about Buckley ideas that seem unappealing is missing the forest for the trees. This is not a guy who through that ideas should be pushed on anyone, who thought that he was in an ideological war. He thought that all of the possibilities should be talked about in the open, and he had the courage of his convictions. I have already said that I agreed with very little that he said, but I admire a guy who stands up and says what he believes and is willing to accept what ever the group decides. By all accounts he was a friendly man, a man of principles and morals, we could use a lot more like that. I don't see why anyone should get all hot and bothered about him thinking that tattooing aids carriers is a good idea, there are good arguments for doing so and they don't go away just because we find the idea an assault upon our sensibilities. In any case he was never going to push to make it happen, he was talking about what he believed, not what he was trying to do.


Very well said.

When I was a foolish liberal I admired his independent intellect. Now that I am a foolish conservative, I admire it just the same.
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2008 10:53 am
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
ossobuco wrote:
Ah, memories of a Buckley-Vidal spat..


One of the top ten moments in TV history!

"Call me a neo-nazi one more time you fag and I'll pop you on the nose!"

Buckley lost that one to Vidal by letting him get under his skin, but it was great TV.



You have it wrong. After Buckley called him a faggot, Vidal referred to him as a crypto-Nazi. Both references were true.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2008 02:39 pm
I thought the crypto nazi part was first, but I had trouble hearing the dialogue in the video - and I watched it only shortly and forget already.
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