Theists cannot be selfless

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I realized something the other day:

Only atheists can be truly selfless.

Whenever a theist commits an act of charity, they are inevitably expecting something in return: heaven, maybe, or God's favour. While they may feel like and say that they are doing a good deed in it's own right, they are always expecting something in return.

On the other hand, an act of charity by an atheist is truly done in selflessness, because they are not expecting anything in return.

Only atheists can be truly selfless. Ironic, isn't it?

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Doin' a little chain-jerkin' there, Boss? A little cage rattlin'?

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Re: Theists cannot be selfless

aperson wrote:

I realized something the other day:

Only atheists can be truly selfless.

Whenever a theist commits an act of charity, they are inevitably expecting something in return: heaven, maybe, or God's favour. While they may feel like and say that they are doing a good deed in it's own right, they are always expecting something in return.

On the other hand, an act of charity by an atheist is truly done in selflessness, because they are not expecting anything in return.

Only atheists can be truly selfless. Ironic, isn't it?

You've just reminded me of all the christians who say

Fundies wrote:

Give but do not expect to recieve, to get eternal life in Heaven

Yeah. No recieveing there. Just another way christianity brainwashes all these people. Promises of happiness. Sort of like Santa, who I stopped believing in at about 5. Same age as with God too I spose.

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Re: Theists cannot be selfless

aperson wrote:

. . . On the other hand, an act of charity by an atheist is truly done in selflessness, because they are not expecting anything in return. . .

I believe you are correct about many atheists, but not all. I'm reminded of Jesus' characterization in Matthew 6:2: "Hence when you go making gifts of mercy, do not blow a trumpet ahead of you, just as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be glorified by men. Truly I say to YOU, They are having their reward in full." This applies to many atheists as well, don't you think?

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Re: Theists cannot be selfless

aperson wrote:

I realized something the other day:

Only atheists can be truly selfless.

Whenever a theist commits an act of charity, they are inevitably expecting something in return: heaven, maybe, or God's favour. While they may feel like and say that they are doing a good deed in it's own right, they are always expecting something in return.

On the other hand, an act of charity by an atheist is truly done in selflessness, because they are not expecting anything in return.

Only atheists can be truly selfless. Ironic, isn't it?

poppycock

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Complete BS.

Its perfectly possible to just want to see someone else happy. I don't do it to please god or for Karma, sometimes I just like to make people happy.

What an ironically selfish thing to say, a$$

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Setanta wrote:

Doin' a little chain-jerkin' there, Boss? A little cage rattlin'?

Can an "Atheists Cannot be Selfless" thread be far behind?

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Quote:

Only atheists can be truly selfless.

Whenever a theist commits an act of charity, they are inevitably expecting something in return: heaven, maybe, or God's favour. While they may feel like and say that they are doing a good deed in it's own right, they are always expecting something in return.

do you have evidence to support this theory?

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Syllogisms that contain words such as "only" and truly" need to be very carefully constructed. When an "only" proof falls apart, it falls particularly hard.

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In order for a person to act in a selfless manor they must know that nothing they do will affect them, either now or in the after life. If I don't breath I die, breathing matters and given my brain size as a human I can not escape knowing this, thus I can not be selfless. Neither can anyone else.

Since a "truly selfless" person can not exist, the question is moot.

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Aperson,

When you do something for someone else and you don't expect anything in return does it not make you feel good about yourself? Hmmm........ :wink: Wouldn't that also be considered some type of "reward"?

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Setanta,
Yerp.

Atheist101,
You got it, thanks for the post.

Neo,
Ah - I said only atheists CAN be selfless, not that they always are. I suspect more theists INTEND to be selfless, but are truly not. (People often choose a religion to suit their personality)
EVERYONE READ ABOVE PARAGRAPH PLEASE.

Intrepid,
Thanks for your in depth comment.

curtis,
Read the paragraph pointed out. I do it for the exact same reason, but ONLY for that reason, not for God also.

George,
I hope not.

kate,
It supports itself - Atheist101 hit the nail on the head with his comment. Read noted paragraph.

Miklos7,
Yes, I agree. I went through that partial with my comment to Neo.

hawkeye10,
You getting a bit too deep there. I mean selfless in the traditional sense. Truly indicates a level of depth, but no that deep.

Arella Mae,
BRILLIANT! Most insiteful comment I've ever read from you (perhaps because it's not based on circular logic and faith, no offense).

I suppose that you are right, that is a reward. Maybe I should reconsider - we probably don't ever do things that are "truly" selfless. I was wrong. Still, that's a subconscious reward - we only think about it as a reason to do something good. Heaven, on the other hand, is consciously thought about as a reason to do something good. Ie: "I'm going to do this good thing, for no [apparant] reason." as opposed to "I'm going to do this good thing so that God likes me."

That's the best I can do. Wow, you really can be quite intelligent when you cut out all the religious mumbo jumbo.

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aperson wrote:

curtis,
Read the paragraph pointed out. I do it for the exact same reason, but ONLY for that reason, not for God also.
.

You make so many elementary BS assumptions. You assume that because I believe in god that I do things for her???? Your pathetically uneducated atheist view is still remarkably based on judeo-christian education. Don't get me wrong.. I have great respect for atheists, but atheists like you make me want to vomit. You haven't done the research for youself, you've just taken society's religious perverted view and thrown it away because you think it can't exist.

God doesn't require anything of me. I don't do **** for god, I do it because we are all one soul, and helping another helps everyone. We are all connected, and if you think that because I do things for my fellow man that I'm selfish then you can rot in the non-existent, christian-contrived hell that doesn't exist. Smile

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Quote:

You've just reminded me of all the christians who say

Fundies wrote:

Give but do not expect to recieve, to get eternal life in Heaven

thats not even scriptural aperson. if you want intelligent responses then please give and support intelligent posts. You claim theists are taught to give so they can receive eternal life or get something from God etc , thats not true with christians. The bible says we are not saved by works (good deeds) but faith. Of course there are theists that do things to look good but i think neo hit it on the head correctly with the verse he gave. And as i asked previously where is your evidence that atheists are truly selfless and theists aren't?

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aperson wrote:

. . . People often choose a religion to suit their personality . . .

I have often opined that folks should evaluate their motives to the point where they are able to discern whether their beliefs are colored by hope of reward or desire for license.

In the grand scheme of things, it is only the truth which matters.

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Quote:

Arella Mae,
BRILLIANT! Most insiteful comment I've ever read from you (perhaps because it's not based on circular logic and faith, no offense).

I suppose that you are right, that is a reward. Maybe I should reconsider - we probably don't ever do things that are "truly" selfless. I was wrong. Still, that's a subconscious reward - we only think about it as a reason to do something good. Heaven, on the other hand, is consciously thought about as a reason to do something good. Ie: "I'm going to do this good thing, for no [apparant] reason." as opposed to "I'm going to do this good thing so that God likes me."

That's the best I can do. Wow, you really can be quite intelligent when you cut out all the religious mumbo jumbo.

No, not brilliant at all but you do have a misconception I believe. When I do something for someone I don't think "oh I'm storing up a reward in heaven for this!" If I was doing it for that reason it would be totally pointless. I don't do things for people for what I may get in return somewhere down the line. It's kind of like I don't go around thinking so and so is going to hell either.

Christianity is a way of life. It's not a point and reward system. Anyone can be selfless and anyone can be selfish.

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aperson wrote:

hawkeye10,
You getting a bit too deep there. I mean selfless in the traditional sense. Truly indicates a level of depth, but no that deep.
.

OK, so what was the point of the OP??? More of the "My myth is better than your myth crap?" Hopefully not "atheists are better people". Gotta love all the atheists who bash religions and those who partake in them all day long and then do the exact same stuff they condemned the religious folk for. Maybe religion is not the problem, people are. What are we going to do about that, exterminate ourselves?

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curtis,
You started off emotional and have gotten worse. My argument was not meant to offend theists, and no emotion was involved. You seem to have taken it as an insult. Calm down and speak rationally.

kate,
Hmmm... well if it's not scriptural then it's certainly implied. I've sat through enough sermons to know that. Maybe that's not what you belief, but it's certainly what most other people believe.

Quote:

The bible says we are not saved by works (good deeds) but faith.

You just made me lose the little remaining respect I had for the Bible. Well done.

I thought I explained my theory in the first paragraph. It's not like a biological theory - I can't provide evidence. You choose to reject or accept it, but don't ask for evidence.

Neo,
Or course, but truth is seldom pondered. I am reminded of the exchange between House and "Big Love", which goes something like this:

"You're an atheist? Where's the fun in that?".
"It's not about fun, it's about truth."

Obviously House is not exactly a perfect atheistic role model (no doubt the producers are Christian), but the idea is good.

Arella Mae,
I agree, I don't think any intelligent Christian thinks that, but a point and reward system, or something like it, is quite deep-rooted in Christianity.

hawkeye,
I have never implied that "atheists are better people" and I certainly don't partake in religious acts.

The problem IS IN the people, and is nurtured by religion. People who have the problem adopt the religion, as I have said to Neo. I hope that, by removing religion, the problem will be removed also, or at least reduced.

Exterminating ourselves would, actually, be the best solution. Humans are the cause of all unbalance on Earth. Sarcastic though you may be, you are right.

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aperson wrote:

The problem IS IN the people, and is nurtured by religion. People who have the problem adopt the religion, as I have said to Neo. I hope that, by removing religion, the problem will be removed also, or at least reduced.

Exterminating ourselves would, actually, be the best solution. Humans are the cause of all unbalance on Earth. Sarcastic though you may be, you are right.

It must suck to be you.... have you gotten laid recently?? I can safely say that that would be a better use of your time then trying to save the human race.

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Geesh Hawkeye, he's just voicing his opinion here. No need to be like that. From experience, I can tell you that aperson is one of the nicer ones! One might ask you the same question you asked him. :wink:

People will always find something or someone to blame. Religion is not to blame. God is not to blame. People are to blame so I can see why he'd make the exterminate us comment.

It's a shame though. Instead of exterminate us, we should be working on us?

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Theists cannot be selfless

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