Personal References.

Have you had any trouble getting jobs? If the answer is "no", maybe it isn't a big deal and you should carry on as before. However, if you state to a potential employer that you just plain don't like asking people for references, even if they don't think you have something to hide, they may get the feeling that maybe you are an awkward type of person, lacking in confidence and/or social skills. They may just think that you're weird! You don't want to give the impression that you don't have any friends or that you don't know anybody who will attest to your being a decent person. If you are in competition for an interview you don't want to give the people doing the initial sift any reason to put your application at the botom of the pile or in the trash.

You are not asking people to sign their souls over to the devil, just to say that they know you, that you actually checkably exist, and that you are an OK person.

A personal reference need not be a big document. Can't you think of anybody who could write a letter like this:

I have known Montana Doe in a variety of capacities for many years. She has been my daughter's riding instructor for the past several years.

Montana is organized, efficient, extremely competent, and has an excellent rapport with people of all ages. Her communication skills, both written and verbal, are excellent.

In summary, I highly recommend Jane for any position or endeavor that she may seek to pursue. She will be a valuable asset for any organization.

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Sincerely,

John Smith

I've always given personal references, but I didn't like it. I'm not apply for any work where social skills are required. Just labour work in a place working the night shift, not dealing with customers.

I've only lived in Canada for a little over 7 years and I still don't have any friends here, so the no friends thing is true, in my opinion, none of their business.

I have plenty of friends in the states, but I don't like to burden people. It's just the way I am and I don't consider it to be a flaw at all.

I'm also a private person and don't like anyone in my business, unless I care to share it with them. My friends are personal and none of their business.

I don't know why I feel this way, but I do.

This job is just something to help me break down my debts for a few years. I'm starting a business, but have to cut out some of my expenses first.

I have 2 places in mind where competition won't be a problem. I have my work references and I think that should be enough.

I can see them asking for someone who's young and doesn't have any work references, but other than that, I think it's an invasion of a persons privacy.

There seems to be more of a requirement for personal references now than there was 15 - 20 years ago. A lot of employers are getting into the whole EQ assessment of people - more worried about how people will fit in with their clients and other employees than anything else.

It's a reality of the modern world of work in North America.

I think it sucks!

You go to work and your privacy is gone.

Just about everywhere. It's a pretty universal thing here in Europe. If nothing else, a checkable personal reference can prove that you are who you say you are. To get my present job, with a company that holds government contracts, I had to give two personal references, one of whom had to be a professional person (teacher, doctor, lawyer, priest, etc), and also agree to a check with the criminal records bureau and also a security clearance check. My educational qualifications were checked, and my last three employers were contacted. I used to rent an apartment so I asked my previous landlord to provide a reference as well.

It's no burden. Ask permission before using someone for a reference, of course. You've my permission, for what it's worth.

I've always been required to put this info as well, but I grew up in the US and was there until 7 years ago.

Been working since I was 12, which is 32 years ago and I've always been required to put references, along with agree to a criminal check. I never minded the criminal background check because I didn't have to burden my friends.

Thanks Roger. You're a sweetheart and I truly appreciate it. I would never put anyone as a reference without asking them first, no doubt, but I hate asking.

If they do insist on the references, I'll let you know.

(((((((((((Roger))))))))))))

It's never a burden, so far as I'm concerned. I've given references and consider it my pleasure to do so.

Always ask first (you know this, I'm just putting the steps in order).
Tell the person the kind of job you're looking for so that they have an idea of what to write.
Thank them afterwards. A note is very appropriate.
Keep in touch with your references and promise to reciprocate if you get the chance. I send Xmas cards to mine, including one who I have known since 1987.

When I took my boards or got my state license, I forget which, I had to get references all the way back to beginning jobs in another field. My last employer in lab work was a problematic son of a gun - who I never had any trouble with except one weird time over five years and he used to rage so often at others I doubt he'd remember - anyway I was afraid of what he'd say. He sent me a copy of the rave letter, whew. So, hey, I still have that and some other evaluations. People would say gppd things in my present field (they'd better!).

I don't think it's a burden, I think it's the professional thing to do.

I do understand that in litigious times people are increasingly wary of giving poor evaluations.

Also - I would think it was fishy is someone were to say they didn't want to get references because they didn't want to bother people.

Thing is they always ask for phone #s of my references and prefer to call them. The note thing wouldn't be as bad, though. I'd love it if they would just settle for that instead of calling people.

I don't know, I just always ended up in a new job every few years and every few years end up needing to ask for references again and it just makes me feel like I'm being a pain in the butt.

Adding -
Not that I think you are being "fishy", but that would be my take on it with an unknown applicant.

I understand that. I just hate this. I've lost touch with all the friends I had when I lived in the US, mostly due to the fact that they all got married, have kids, now grandchildren. They're busy, I've been busy and even though we still care about eachother, they just don't know me anymore. I mean they don't know what I've been up to the last 7 years.

I have no friends here because it's a tight knit community that's not all that welcoming of strangers.

we're planning on selling the house in a few years to get closer to the city (where I feel right at home and can see myself making friends), but in the mean time, it puts me in a weird position as far as references are concerned.

they definitely prefer to call here. I've had more calls about personal references than work references lately.

That's why I have such a huge problem with the references. People have lives and I don't like to have people burdened with phone calls.

<sigh>

F*** it! If they can't live with my job references, I'll find somewhere that can. I mean, the people that I worked for in the past can obviously explain to them what kind of a person I am, right?

I don't like to bug people and I won't do it for some stupid labour job where I'm paid a fraction of what I'm worth.

They can take me or leave me. If they leave me, it's their loss.

Ah, but they won't know what they've lost, so they won't suffer. Using someone for a reference is not the same as 'using' your friends.

I know that Roger, but it's still hard.

I always felt it was more than any company should ask for. Job references should be enough without them prying into peoples personal lives.

My job is my job and my personal life is my personal life and absolutely none of their business.

I would imagine that my ex bosses could vouch for who I am, so why dig for more?

Worse comes to worse, I'll go back to the lobster shop where the only thing they care about is if you have a pulse.

What does a person do if they have no friends? No friends, no job?

Gee, I see I completely misread this thread. Beg everybody's pardon. I can't remember when I last gave a personal instead of job reference info re myself, or got that info on someone else. Maybe back on those board applications, and that was decades ago. Aaaack, I feel like a dodo.