infinity and god

Atheist101 wrote:

. . .
Hebrew: SHEOL
Translation: Pit, Grave.
Translation in Bible: Hell. . .

HMM! Here is where the scriptures uphold your point of view, 101.

kate4christ03 wrote:

english:hell or hellfire
greek:Gevenna
translation:fire pit

According to Jesus, hell is an eternal place full of fire and everlasting punishment.

The correct derivation of Gehenna refers to the valley of Hinnom, a place outside of Jerusalem where sulfurous fires were constantly burned and where the garbage of the city, including the bodies of dead animals and criminals were destroyed. Though the fires burned constantly, the destruction was final and finite.

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Atheist101 wrote:

So. If as you say, at his age, you were a non-believer. What changed your mind?

I grew up.

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Hey I am trying to catch up with what you guys are saying but sounds like Beltane to me! Burning to purify! Yes I was Pagan not sure I am now since my husband died a month ago!

Yes am an initiated witch and Bard! but you know life is **** at times!

Nothing's forgotten nothing is ever forgotten!

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Quote:

The correct derivation of Gehenna refers to the valley of Hinnom, a place outside of Jerusalem where sulfurous fires were constantly burned and where the garbage of the city, including the bodies of dead animals and criminals were destroyed. Though the fires burned constantly, the destruction was final and finite.

Jesus compared hell to the fires of gehenna, because those fires were never quenched. There are so many verses in the nt that state the punishment of those that reject Christ is eternal damnation, eternal punishment and that hell is where the worm dieth not and the fires are never quenched. There is nothing to support the belief of hell being a place where the wicked are annihilated. I think jude 7 states it clearly:
...as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

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Fresco,
You are ridiculously smart.

Ticomaya,
Ooo burn. I've already done my see-sawing, and in the end I stayed at the "atheist" side. Sure, I'm not as open as I claim to be, but at least my beliefs are cemented in logic as opposed to blind faith and thoughtless emotion.

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aperson wrote:

Ticomaya,
Ooo burn. I've already done my see-sawing, and in the end I stayed at the "atheist" side. Sure, I'm not as open as I claim to be, but at least my beliefs are cemented in logic as opposed to blind faith and thoughtless emotion.

Yeah, but you haven't grown up yet. "Blind faith and thoughtless emotion"? I've been down a walk you haven't started yet, pal. Maybe you'll come, maybe you won't. But unlike others, I'm not here to convince you of the error of your ways. The way I look at it, you will either choose this path or the one you are on.

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You're pretty convinced that your beliefs are right and that mine are wrong, aren't you?

Oh yea, great analogy. "You will either be an atheist or a theist." No sh!t Sherlock.

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aperson wrote:

You're pretty convinced that your beliefs are right and that mine are wrong, aren't you?

Are you convinced in the correctness of your own?

Quote:

Oh yea, great analogy. "You will either be an atheist or a theist." No sh!t Sherlock.

It's not an analogy. LINK

My point being, I don't see utility in trying to convince you of the correctness my my beliefs. You will see the correctness of my beliefs, if at all, on your own schedule, and in your own way.

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Ticomaya wrote:

My point being, I don't see utility in trying to convince you of the correctness my my beliefs.

It's because you can't.

Ticomaya wrote:

You will see the correctness of my beliefs, if at all, on your own schedule, and in your own way.

T
K
O

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"The correctness of my beliefs."

At least my arrogance has limits.

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aperson wrote:

"The correctness of my beliefs."

At least my arrogance has limits.

So, are you telling me you are not convinced of the correctness of your own beliefs?

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That's it exactly. I am a "weak" atheist - ie I'm not so arrogant to think that I am definitely correct. The proposition that anyone "knows" exactly how the universe works, down to names and descriptions of deities, is ridiculous and egocentrical.

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Okay ... then how can you cast aspersions upon my beliefs? For all you know, I'm right ... right?

Or, are you simultaneously not convinced of the correctness of your own beliefs, while convinced that my beliefs are incorrect?

My confidence in my beliefs isn't "arrogance," and it's certainly not egocentric ... it's faith, and faith alone.

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i have to agree with Ticomaya. Absolute assurance in one's beliefs doesn't necessarily equate with arrogance. For me, as a christian, i absolutely believe in God and Christ. This isn't arrogance but faith.

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My form of atheism has nothing to with "faith"; I do not "believe" without basis that there is no God. As I've said for years on this forum, I merely turn away from the concept because it makes no sense to me, it does not resonate with my experience. This means, of course, that I am not evangelical about my atheism. Indeed, I find evangelical atheists, like the late Madeline O'hara boorish and superficial. They seem to exercise a level of intellectual competence only slightly higher than that of fundamentalist Christians.

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JLNobody wrote:

My form of atheism has nothing to with "faith" ...

But wouldn't you say it has a lot to do with a lack of faith?

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I guess so. But I have lots of "faith" about other things. It's just that I can't see myself believing Christian mythology. I refer to the fundamentalist brand. There are, as I see it, other versions of Christianity that are far more sophisticated that focus, by means of metaphor and poetic impulse, more on matters of divinity rather than supernaturalism. I'm not adverse, for example, to many aspects of Gnostic Christianity.

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Ticomaya wrote:

JLNobody wrote:
My form of atheism has nothing to with "faith" ...

But wouldn't you say it has a lot to do with a lack of faith?

Many atheists base their beliefs on facts. The absence of faith is not required. Faith has no value. You have faith, and want it to have value. There is a difference.

Your misguided comments reminded of a religious radio broadcast I heard while on a road trip. The preacher was going on about atheists.

He said: "Atheists wish that Jesus had never been born."

This statement is stupid and wildly incorrect. Atheists don't care if a Jesus was ever born, because even if a Jesus ever existed, they simply don't believe the claim that he was god/the son of god.

The incorrectness in that preacher's message is echoed in your statement. Atheist beliefs aren't based on the absence of faith, but instead the presence of evidence contrary.

You're trying too hard to make it about something which it is not. Faith may be the reason you subscribe to your choice of mythology, but your faith has no transferable value.

T
K
O

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Diest TKO wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:
JLNobody wrote:
My form of atheism has nothing to with "faith" ...

But wouldn't you say it has a lot to do with a lack of faith?

Many atheists base their beliefs on facts. The absence of faith is not required. Faith has no value. You have faith, and want it to have value. There is a difference.

Your misguided comments reminded of a religious radio broadcast I heard while on a road trip. The preacher was going on about atheists.

He said: "Atheists wish that Jesus had never been born."

This statement is stupid and wildly incorrect. Atheists don't care if a Jesus was ever born, because even if a Jesus ever existed, they simply don't believe the claim that he was god/the son of god.

The incorrectness in that preacher's message is echoed in your statement. Atheist beliefs aren't based on the absence of faith, but instead the presence of evidence contrary.

You're trying too hard to make it about something which it is not. Faith may be the reason you subscribe to your choice of mythology, but your faith has no transferable value.

T
K
O

No, faith (in God) has a lot of value, just not to you. The reason? ... because you don't have any. We can argue back and forth about whether faith has value, but we will likely get nowhere.

If you (or JLNobody in the actual example above) had faith, then you (or he) would not be an atheist. That was the point I was trying to push forward. So as you can clearly see, it is faith, and faith alone, that is the difference.

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Rubbish.

You think you can argue back and forth because you think your claim is of equal merit. It is NOT.

Faith is not the separation. Fact is.

I have an certain bias for facts. I'm just crazy like that.

T
K
O

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infinity and god

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