infinity and god

I think you are getting mathematics and theology dangerously mixed up. A recipe for a headache.

Infinity is an idea (very) useful to mathematicians, but of course there could never be an infinite number of books in any real library.

PS I don't believe in God either.

The existence of infinity has nothing at all to do with god. Just because one exists the other doesn't have to exist.

however, I believe in both. You can't have an infinite number of anything. The whole point is that its NOT a number, its a concept; something that can only be imagined. But numerically, you're right. Infinity minus 10 is still infinity.

Mathematical things like that "fit" my brain's style, so they make sense to me, so I could understand how you might not understand the concept of infinity.... but how does that apply to whether or not god exists?

Years ago I lived in a part of town where an old Irish homeless street guy used to hang out. Often he would be in the street when I was going home from the pub. One night he asked me for some money. "God wants you to give me some", he said. I told him I didn't believe in God. "What's the square root of nine?" he demanded. "Three" I told him. "And what is three times three?" was the next question. "Nine", I answered. "And ye still tell me ye don't believe in God?" he answered triumphantly. I was so pleased at this I gave him all my change, about £4 ($8).

god is supposedly an infinite being (with no beginning or end) so if infinity is possible then god is possible.

also, just like infinity, god is a concept that suites certain minds, and not others.

i can understand how infinity could be possible, in the sense that there may not be a beginning or end to the universe, souls, etc.

btw, go back to that tramp and tell him that 1+1=3 and get your money back.

That doesn't follow. Paul Bunyan is supposedly a 100 feet tall, and the quantity of a 100 feet is possible, but it doesn't follow that a 100-foot tall man is possible.

The notion of asymtotic behaivors in nature is certainly sound, but infinity is not something to be referd to in such a casual way.

To infinity and beyond!!!
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Infinity exists in mathematics, very much so. We couldn't do without it.

Hyperbolaes come to mind, as do sequences to infinity.

In mathematics not only does infinity exist, but different infinities have different cardinalities---for instance the number of natural numbers is infinite and the number of real numbers is infinite---but the cardinality of the two infinities are not the same. The cardinality of the infinite set of real numbers is considered uncountably infinite whereas the cardinality of the infinite set of natural numbers is countably infinite. And the infinite set of real numbers is larger than the infinite set of natural numbers

This was established by Cantor by his development of a proof that showed there were an infinite number of real numbers between any two successive natural numbers. As this proof is not intuitive it is considered pivotal in the onset of modern mathematics.

Rap

There is a infinite number of Gods in the infinite.

What?

If a library had an infinite number of books then the library would be at least as large as the total universe. Therefore a library cannot contain an infinite number of books but must contain a finite number.

God can be infinite if God IS everything, everywhere. Maybe everything is simply part of the fabric of God!

Or maybe there is no God...

Occam's Razor, mate. Theists always have to keep rationalizing and making up excuses - trying to find ways to fit God into reality. Atheists, well we don't need to rationalize.

I think these notions of infinity, omnipotence, everything or omniscience in relation to God are symbolic, they're asking us to step beyond them, the labels and words that is. God is infinite or God is everything can't to my mind mean God the object possesses the attribute of everything or infinity. To be in that relation is to be finite, at least that is how I conceive of it. I like the old formula, Nirvana = Samsara. God the label is Nirvana, God is really the equals symbol, not literally of course, this is the problem of mistaking the symbol for what it's pointing at. God is the equals symbol as in God transcends duality.

I don't think there is anything IN THE WORLD OF (our) PHENOMENA to point to with the word, infinite. Nevertheless, the concept of infinity serves the operation of mathematics. The term seems, therefore, to be hypothetical in thought rather than descriptive of experience.

Georg Cantor believed that his celebrated analysis of the mathematics of infinity, (which was based on his "set theory") was communicated to him "by God", but he ran into trouble with both theologians and philosophers. (See Wiki)

Taking the view that "thought" is bounded by "language" (Whorf, Wittgenstein, etc) , since syntactically (mathematically) language allows for potentially "infinite sentences" (as in The House that Jack Built) we have a natural propensity to understand sentences about infinite regresses such as those involved in "the existence of God". However, once we have established this transcendent position regarding the nature of thought and language we find ourselves questioning the very axioms of set theory on which concepts like infinity are based. (e.g. since "things" require "observers" to name them and put them in "sets"). It is from this position that traditonal concepts of "God as an infinite being" become vacuous, and such a vacuum is underscored by modern physics which has deconstructed "time" as an independent frame of reference in which "existence" can operate separately from observers.

It is from the ashes of set theory and traditional "realism" that the phoenix of "an ineffable reality" can arise.

Nice post, Fresco.
And it is wonderful to be able to live, at least sporadically, in that "ineffable reality". It is a form of transcendental "knowledge", a "myscial" perspective that transcends the constraints of language. But so long as we do not feel positive about the ineffability of Reality, we strive to cover it with the knowledge of philosophy. I think we do well with both, and better still with the addition of physics.

By the way, interesting note about Cantor. It seems that the theologians rejected his claim because of their own proprietary claims to God, and the philosophers might have argued either that Cantor was lying or hallucinating (sounds more like the claim of psychiatrists) or--more likely--that if Cantor was right then God is wrong.

I don't know if it's the right way of putting it but it's interesting to me that some objects of experience seem to have a greater propensity than others for what I think of as transforming consciousness towards that ineffability, like a blazing bonfire on a dark winter evening with all it's visual beauty and warmth. On the other hand, every day objects, maybe because they lack novelty in some way (?), can be the opposite. Having said that every day objects can sometimes take on incredible meaning, strange really.

Yep, you atheists have it pretty easy.

Well, until you descend into the fiery pits of Hell, I guess.

I think you'll find more christians in hell than atheists.

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