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Sun 24 Aug, 2003 01:02 pm
There's a split in the Democratic party between the old guard -- the DNC and the DLC -- and many of the rest of us.
However, it's not as deep as the divisions within the Republican party. Those divisions caused some of their best senators and members of the House quit in the '90's because of the "lack of comity," their deep discomfort with the tactics of DeLay and members of the current administration, and their distrust of the religious far right.
The question is, If Bush is defeated in 2004 (god-willin'), will the Democrats come together? What will happen to the Republican party? Will there be an even greater effort on the part of the far right to take it over? What will moderate Republicans do? Is there a chance that the Republicans could once again become a respected, well-led party, eager to revive a more civilized Congress, or are we doomed to ever deeper divisions, gruesome behavior, and anger emanating from the right?
Let's look at some of the people involved, from Grover Norquist and Karl Rove to the remaining moderates in the Senate -- and in your home state. Your opinions, your hopes, your knowledge of the people on the Hill... your ideas, please!
I don't predict a second Civil War, but, I see the deepest divisions culturally and politically since that era. Instead of give and take and competition, it's destruction of the other side that many seek.
You mean political Wahhabism. This is the sect of Islam that has created bin Laden and the suicide bombers.
It isn't "my way or the highway" it's "my way or the sword".
Even though it seems that one side or the other will take no prisoners----in times of real crisis that attitude is forgotten "even though" temporarily. The hatred for the current administration is disturbing to say the least.
Dare say I the hatred for the current administration is only in the beginning stages. The backlash from the neo-cons will be in the extreme but ultimately self-destructive. The pendelum will swing back to a more neutral arena.
How wonderful that hob educated you about the Wahhabism, perception. Now you have a little more information, which has nothing at all to do with this thread, but I see we're not leaving you behind.
Tart - the splits are getting more noticeable, too. I think we may be seeing some bigger changes than first appears.
Most people and groups are reluctant to let go of the old ways that made them winners. I believe this is what we're seeing with the DLC and the DNC. They have been the leadership groups who laid down the rules and called the shots, and generally set the tone. And the tone after 2000 was a down one. A good part of that, I believe, was rooted in an almost total disbelief in the actions of the Supreme Court. This may also explain the upward bursts with Howard Dean. There is a positive element working, that has given renewed strength and hope. And it's been disconcerting, in the least, to the Democratic parties, who have had to relinquish so much control. But I do believe they will come together, because basically there is a strong objective that is bigger than ony one candidate.
On the republican side, there appears more and more to be a splintering effect. Three years ago I wondered how all those super egos would play together. Well, they haven't. More and more, Grover Norquist, Karl Rove, Rex, Newt, Rummy et all seem to be trying to build their own power bases rather than appear as one powerful group. When you read the list of those who leave, there's almost always a story somewhere of conflict with one of the ones at the top. And their campaign with Arnie in CA is interesting to watch in more ways than one. A lot of money going there; a lot of White House muscle (I'd love to know Bill Simon's real feelings on his being forced out, and whether he and his father will continue to be big contributors).
And more indications - seems to be growing unity on the democratic side regarding Iraq, and growing confusion and questions on the republican side. This is such a big issue - it's the one that's supposed to prove the fearless leaders' leadership.
Grover, Harley planning on running for governor; Racicot planning on the Senate - they need to be united on those efforts,
2004 should be interesting.
Interesting, Mamaj. Perhaps the smartest thing would be to watch for signs of detachment from the admin on the part of Reps running for office?
I like that one!
I STILL want a massive anti-Bush movement where people stick to one low chant: Liar, liar, liar. It would be pretty effective.
Lot of talk about the presidential, but there are a lot of other races, too. Now, in South Dakota - Daschle is up, and Thune, who has lost several times, is probably running against him. The favored republican candidate is most likely out of the picture (present rep, ex-gov among other things), as he recently, while speeding, ran a stop light and killed a cyclist. And in CA, so far, ol Arnie isn't sailing in smoothly.
But there are still loyal repubs, and we can expect an even dirtier fight this time. Except, I think the Supreme Court decision in 2000 may have had more of an effect than we realize right now.
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