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Economic stimulus, or just another government give-a-way?

 
 
flaja
 
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 11:12 am
GWB just announced that he wants the government to spend $100,000,000,000 in economic stimulation courtesy of the U.S. taxpayers.

But, what purpose does it serve (other than election year politics) to simply give money away in order to stimulate an economy that has:

Consumers that are deep in debt;

Mortgages that are worth more than the houses they are on due to the housing bubble;

Consumers that are dependent on cheap imports while domestic labor refuses to accept equally cheap wages;

Energy supplies that must be imported from hostile countries;

Rising unemployment at the same time we have rising inflation?


Instead of simply giving away money, why not offer taxpayer rebates for anyone who buys a domestically produced automobile that uses a non-fossil fuel?

Instead of simply giving away money, why not lower corporate tax rates to encourage the establishment of factories that can turn garbage into consumer products?

Why not regulate the banking and mortgage industry so mortgage values won't be able to grow faster than the actual value of the properties that are mortgaged?

Why not stimulate the economy by tending to our economic infrastructure by repairing/rebuilding bridges and storm drains and building things like a high-speed rail system from coast to ooast?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 844 • Replies: 15
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woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 11:30 am
As usual, GW gets bad advice and is too stupid to understand the problem. Throwing $800 to anyone making less than 85K/yr is like spitting in the ocean.

Where is the penalty to Corporate Officers who perpetrated the mortgage scam?

Where is the energy relief?

Where is the leadership in this country? Certainly not in the Congress nor in the Executive Branch. Evil or Very Mad
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 11:31 am
Re: Economic stimulus, or just another government give-a-way
flaja wrote:
GWB just announced that he wants the government to spend $100,000,000,000 in economic stimulation courtesy of the U.S. taxpayers.

But, what purpose does it serve (other than election year politics) to simply give money away in order to stimulate an economy that has:

Consumers that are deep in debt;

Mortgages that are worth more than the houses they are on due to the housing bubble;

Consumers that are dependent on cheap imports while domestic labor refuses to accept equally cheap wages;

Energy supplies that must be imported from hostile countries;

Rising unemployment at the same time we have rising inflation?


Instead of simply giving away money, why not offer taxpayer rebates for anyone who buys a domestically produced automobile that uses a non-fossil fuel?

Instead of simply giving away money, why not lower corporate tax rates to encourage the establishment of factories that can turn garbage into consumer products?

Why not regulate the banking and mortgage industry so mortgage values won't be able to grow faster than the actual value of the properties that are mortgaged?

Why not stimulate the economy by tending to our economic infrastructure by repairing/rebuilding bridges and storm drains and building things like a high-speed rail system from coast to ooast?


B/C those proposals would make sense.

Also b/c the Republican mantra and goal is to starve the gov't of money in order to shrink it in size.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 11:51 am
Because in an election year, giving money away will grant you more votes (or your party more votes) than actually doing something that will help the economy. Most people want immediate gratification - most useful economic policies takes some length of time to see the true benefit.
0 Replies
 
flaja
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 12:27 pm
Re: Economic stimulus, or just another government give-a-way
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Also b/c the Republican mantra and goal is to starve the gov't of money in order to shrink it in size.


And just when have Republicans ever done this? I wish I lived in your world.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 12:28 pm
Re: Economic stimulus, or just another government give-a-way
flaja wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Also b/c the Republican mantra and goal is to starve the gov't of money in order to shrink it in size.


And just when have Republicans ever done this? I wish I lived in your world.


Oh, it's their mantra and goal, but not what the money-hungry amongst them do.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 12:41 pm
Re: Economic stimulus, or just another government give-a-way
Cycloptichorn wrote:
flaja wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Also b/c the Republican mantra and goal is to starve the gov't of money in order to shrink it in size.


And just when have Republicans ever done this? I wish I lived in your world.


Oh, it's their mantra and goal, but not what the money-hungry amongst them do.

Cycloptichorn


The Democrats are supporting Bush BS Plan, so look on both sides of the aisle.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 01:44 pm
Anytime Washington wants to give me money they are more than welcome to do so. I have a great money saving idea for them. Get rid of the TSA and the BATF. The former is completly inept and the second should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 02:38 pm
Re: Economic stimulus, or just another government give-a-way
flaja wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Also b/c the Republican mantra and goal is to starve the gov't of money in order to shrink it in size.


And just when have Republicans ever done this? I wish I lived in your world.


So does everyone else, that is why a decent home here still sells for a half million.
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 03:08 pm
We are to about see how much George Bush really believes the “supply side” mumbo-jumbo he’s been spouting for the last seven years. Last week’s Labor Department report confirmed that unemployment is on the rise (5%) and that corrective action will be required to avoid a long and painful recession. There’s a good chance that the Chameleon in Chief will jettison his “trickle down” doctrine for more conventional Keynesian remedies like slashing interest rates, government programs, and tax relief to middle and low-income people. On Monday Bush announced that his team of economic advisors was patching together an “Economic Stimulus Package” that will be unveiled later this month in the State of the Union Speech. The goal is to rev up sagging consumer spending and slow down business contraction. Ironically, the UK Telegraph dubbed the stimulus plan Bush’s “New Deal.” It’s a shocking about-face for a president that has been clobbering the middle class since he took office and who balks at even providing temporary shelter for disaster victims. Now Bush is going to have to give away the farm just to keep the economy from crashing. Good luck.
http://atlanticfreepress.com/
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 03:25 pm
In April 1936, President Franklin D. Roosevelt pointed out while he was dealing with the wreckage of the Great Depression:

"America a century ago was regarded as an economic unity. But as time went on the country was cut up, bit by bit, into segments. We heard about problems of particular localities, the problems of particular groups. More and more people put on blinders; they could see only their own individual interests or the single community in which their business was located. . . . Economists are still trying to find out what it was that hit us back in 1929. I am not a professional economist, but I think I know. What hit us was a decade of debauch, of group selfishness -- the sole objective expressed in the thought: 'Every man for himself and the devil take the hindmost.'"

During the 1920s a political-economy experiencing increased productivity did not allow its benefits to "trickle down" to the broad mass of working people. Too much money went into too few hands too quickly. America in the Teapot Dome-Harding-Coolidge-Hoover years, was a lot like America in the Abramoff-Bush-Cheney-Greenspan years.

Now that Wall Street has finally hit the skids as a result of the disastrous class-warfare policies the investor class and its puppets in the form of George W. Bush and Alan Greenspan unleashed on the American people, maybe -- just maybe -- all of those Republican charlatans who were pushing hard for Social Security privatization will finally shut their traps and admit that their ideologically-driven assault on the vestiges of FDR's New Deal was a failure and a fraud.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph-a-palermo/george-w-bushs-kleptono_b_82209.html
0 Replies
 
flaja
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 03:50 pm
Re: Economic stimulus, or just another government give-a-way
Roxxxanne wrote:
flaja wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Also b/c the Republican mantra and goal is to starve the gov't of money in order to shrink it in size.


And just when have Republicans ever done this? I wish I lived in your world.


So does everyone else, that is why a decent home here still sells for a half million.


Define decent.
0 Replies
 
flaja
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 03:57 pm
Ramafuchs wrote:
We are to about see how much George Bush really believes the “supply side” mumbo-jumbo he’s been spouting for the last seven years. Last week’s Labor Department report confirmed that unemployment is on the rise (5%) and that corrective action will be required to avoid a long and painful recession.


The current economic trouble stems from rising energy costs and the home mortgage foreclosure situation. Supply side economic theory has nothing to do with either of these things.

Quote:
There’s a good chance that the Chameleon in Chief will jettison his “trickle down” doctrine for more conventional Keynesian remedies like slashing interest rates, government programs, and tax relief to middle and low-income people.


If Keynes had actually known what he was talking about, we wouldn't have had the stagflation of the 1970s. Keynesian economics do not work. You cannot spend an economy into prosperity.

Quote:
The goal is to rev up sagging consumer spending and slow down business contraction.


I hope this consumer spending doesn't include gas or groceries. We've already got the worst inflation in 20 years and I hate to see the government try for 30.

Quote:
Ironically, the UK Telegraph dubbed the stimulus plan Bush’s “New Deal.” It’s a shocking about-face for a president that has been clobbering the middle class since he took office and who balks at even providing temporary shelter for disaster victims.


If the plan was just announced today and nobody yet knows the details, how can any newspaper know enough about it to compare it to the New Deal?
0 Replies
 
flaja
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 04:11 pm
Ramafuchs wrote:
During the 1920s a political-economy experiencing increased productivity did not allow its benefits to "trickle down" to the broad mass of working people. Too much money went into too few hands too quickly. America in the Teapot Dome-Harding-Coolidge-Hoover years, was a lot like America in the Abramoff-Bush-Cheney-Greenspan years.


The trouble with the 1920s is that for the first time in history we had a large-scale cash-and-carry consumer-driven economy. When that economy's markets became saturated with consumer goods because most everyone who wanted a particular item had already bought it (on credit), the entire economy collapsed. It had nothing to do with unbalanced allocation of income or wealth.

Quote:
Now that Wall Street has finally hit the skids as a result of the disastrous class-warfare policies the investor class and its puppets in the form of George W. Bush and Alan Greenspan unleashed on the American people, maybe -- just maybe -- all of those Republican charlatans who were pushing hard for Social Security privatization will finally shut their traps and admit that their ideologically-driven assault on the vestiges of FDR's New Deal was a failure and a fraud.


http://www.worldbank.org/html/prddr/trans/julaugsep02/pgs25-27.htm

Almost half of all adult Americans own corporate stock one way or another.

This is something that even Democrats admit: http://sccdp.org/take-back.php

Some 84 million Americans own corporate stock: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week523/perspectives.html

Your class warfare bit doesn't do well in this day and age.
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 04:17 pm
it is not class war but a pathetic outpouring of MLK, NelsonMandela, Mahathma Gandhi; Karl marx, M . Theresa.

Moreover i need not hide my honesty to survive or vegitate.
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jan, 2008 05:33 pm
We don't need stimulus; we need economic change, and economic justice. We need white-collar predators in jail. We need restructuring, not repossessions. We need mechanisms for the redistribution of wealth from the greedy to the needy. And just like the folks in Africa living under a crushing burden of debt we need genuine debt relief. We need to buck this system, not get a few bucks in the mail.
If we have any hope of getting out from under, we also need a media to tell the truth about how this crisis happened, and investigate those that profited on the destruction of our economy, the bankers and brokers that stole our treasure and future.
http://www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/2008-01/20schechter.cfm
0 Replies
 
 

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