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Is compassion learned?

 
 
OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 05:34 pm
i think hate and malice are learned, compassion is always there some people just have more in the way of excercising that compassion than others poverty etc..
0 Replies
 
SallyMander
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jan, 2008 04:41 pm
For what it's worth in the discussion, I think empathy is innate in children and a survival mechanism; compassion is more abstracted but it rests in its "purest" form on maintain some awareness to those innately empathic signal/receptors.

The innate aspect of empathy enables infants to focus on others--their parent--their siblings--people around them, and to "mirror" what is going on. Animals do this too with emotions, sometimes (agitation, fear, etc.) but humans seem to do it across the board with facial expressions and emotions. I think that enables us to grasp interaction but also to program expressions and to connect sounds or other symbols with physical events and emotions.

The related aspect of compassion, which may develop partially or predominately in more mature nervous systems and/or personalities is that phone compassion, in my view, is really pragmatic and selfish--where more genuine compassion retains the egocentric feel of a child's immature perception from a more intellectually mature frame of reference.

Hence, compassion would not be present in the infant, as someone asked, but empathy (unaware) would. It is even more visible in children. Yet, the character of that empathy seems to be immature, visible in the child's response to the question, "Why does the sun set in the evening?" and the answer "So I can go to bed." That egocentric immaturity sees itself as connected to everything and at the center of all events, through the personal experience/perception. In that way, when another falls and hurts his knee or whatever, the playmate genuinely "feels" the pain along with the other.

So I am saying, in sum, that as adults we may feel compassionate about another's injured knee and we may even recall our own knee or related injury, but we won't "feel" it as a child "feels" his or her playmate's injury for lack of ability to distinguish the other's experience from his/her own. Our most noble adult empathy retains that ability to perceive and "feel" another's experience while still retaining the ability to "get outside" that situation and see one's self as a distinct entity that is not also being injured vicariously. That ability to experience vicariously that I call "empathy" functions as a survival feature in human infants and enables us to learn a great deal, especially language and appropriate behaviors/emotions.

Or whatever. Smile

-Sal
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jan, 2008 05:22 pm
Thank you, Sal, for some good insights into children and adults and empathy vs compassion. Makes sense to me!
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jan, 2008 10:11 am
Quote:
Things that are genetic are determined at the moment of conception


Determined?

Genetic information may be encoded within the nucleotide sequences of DNA during the process of embryogenesis, but this is of little consequence if this "encoded information" is never expressed either in vivo or eventually as part of the phenotype of the organism in question.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jan, 2008 11:45 am
Miller wrote:
Quote:
Things that are genetic are determined at the moment of conception


Determined?

Genetic information may be encoded within the nucleotide sequences of DNA during the process of embryogenesis, but this is of little consequence if this "encoded information" is never expressed either in vivo or eventually as part of the phenotype of the organism in question.


Miller, I agree with Sal that "things that are genetic are determined at the moment of conception." It doesn't mean that it will be externally expressed by the individual, but is part of his/her genes. Nothing wrong with that statement - IMHO.
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OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jan, 2008 02:42 pm
Re: Is compassion learned?
cicerone imposter wrote:
There are several topics on A2K about how different people state their opinions about
a) it's okay or not okay to use airplanes to bomb targets that also kills innocent people,
b) the pros and cons of universal health care, and
c) why do we donate or don't donate to charities.
Who or what has the most influence on people about compassion?

Is it genes and/or the environment?

If u don 't mind my saying so,
I think that u 'd be better off
in starting a thread for each of these ideas/questions,
so that each will be accorded proper analysis,
instead of being eclipsed by the other, competing ideas.

I believe that individual LEARNING within the environment
gives rise to compassion; I know that I had a lot less compassion,
when I was a child.




As to donation to charities:
I don 't ofen donate much to charities,
because I like to avoid collectivist conduct.
I like to give cash to INDIVIDUALS who I select; sometimes total strangers.

For instance,
if I give $1000 to the Salvation Army,
maybe the clothes that thay sell to the poor
will be a tiny fraction of a cent cheaper;
hence, no noticable happiness will be created,
whereas, in contrast,
when I walked past a teenage girl at Disneyworld some years ago,
and handed her a $20 bill, she literally leaped up several times
( almost 2 feet off of the ground ) while squealing with joy.
That was more fun than donating to a collectivist charity.

or like the time I was practicing at a gunnery range,
and about 15 Boy Scouts showed up. I gave the Scoutmaster
a few hundred dollars in cash, for ice cream and ammunition,
and showed them my handguns ( about 5 of them ).
He requested my card; sometime thereafter I received a giant
thank u card in the mail, signed by many of them.

That was fun.

Then there was the time at the Bella Luna Restaurant,
on Amsterdam Ave., when a very pretty, young waitress who said she was an American,
but grew up in Scotland, with a Scotch accent,
said that this was her 2nd nite on the job,
I gave her a $100 bill each time she brought me a glass of red wine.
She seemed to like it; that was fun too,
more so than giving to a collectivist charity like the United Way.


Then there was the time at the Bennigan's Restaurant,
out on Long Island, when I called over a pretty, cute young waitress
and told her that she had won the contest.
When asked which contest,
I told her the "prettiest girl around here contest " and gave her a $100 bill.
She seemed to like it. I 've done that in several places.

I am more into hedonism than charity.
Hedonism can be fun.
David
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jan, 2008 02:56 pm
David, Nothing wrong with hedonism; it still helps others enjoy life a little better.

I also give to beggers on the street once in a great while, but more than likely will take them to a fastfood restaurant and tell them to order anything they want. I remember once making that offer to a guy standing outside a Burger King restaurant, and he asked if he could bring his friend with him, so that was a double treat - enjoyment.

As for restricting a topic to the original topic is for me not a good idea. I think a little leeway goes a long way into expanding the enjoyment/learning process. But, I understand that's just me.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jan, 2008 03:49 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
David, Nothing wrong with hedonism; it still helps others enjoy life a little better.




Quote:
I also give to beggers on the street once in a great while,

I have done that sometimes; not always.

I have found giving cash to bums taking bottles from the trash
fails to produce happiness. Maybe mental illness ( depression ? anhedonia ? ) is involved.
Seeing them do that, I knew that each can or bottle is worth a nickle,
20 to the dollar. I gave them a few dollars, but found that thay did not care.
The gesture was futile.
Thay accepted the cash as if I were giving them last week 's newspaper.
Therefore, the gifts were hedonic failures.




Quote:
but more than likely will take them to a fastfood restaurant
and tell them to order anything they want.

I 've never done THAT.




Quote:
I remember once making that offer to a guy standing outside a Burger King restaurant,
and he asked if he could bring his friend with him, so that was a double treat - enjoyment.

Yes.
I know that concept.
About 25 years ago,
I was seeing a girl with a 9 year old boy.

While travelling in another state ( which I do a lot )
I mailed him a letter postmarked there,
from " the Contest Committee "
telling him that he 'd won 2nd prize in the contest,
and wishing him better luck next time, including a $100.oo bill.
I am sure that he must have deemed this very strange,
and discussed it at school with his friends,
RE-LIVING HIS JOY, EACH TIME HE RE-TELLS the story.

He never found out who sent it.






Quote:
As for restricting a topic to the original topic is for me not a good idea.
I think a little leeway goes a long way into expanding the enjoyment/learning process. But, I understand that's just me.

I suggest that u enjoy the forum
in the way that u calculate to give u the best delight.



I LOVE your quote from Einstein; LOVE IT !
SO STIPULATED !
0 Replies
 
SallyMander
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jan, 2008 10:56 pm
Well, when it comes to giving money to bums, empathy is not my operator. I think the bums I see in my town are usually interested in getting alcohol or drugs with their panhandled money, so I have been known to buy coupon books from the nearby McDonald's and hand out coupons. Come to think of it though, there's a street musician I give money to and I think he needs the cash. He plays the "Internationale" which I find interesting, so I generally ask him to play that. Smile

This is a far cry from empathy vs. compassion. I think one needs to look very closely at a person to elicit either one from our normal operating system. I did feel a little compassionate the other day when I came across an injured sparrow on the sidewalk downtown. He had apparently thwacked into a store window. But I was on lunch hour and it wasn't practical to bring him back to the office. So I looked at the bird for a very long time. I suppose it's empathy to look and compassion to act?

Sal
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jan, 2008 11:37 pm
Sal, You bring up another interesting response by humans between animals and other humans. Whether it's compaasion or empathy - or even a mixture of both - is an interesting topic in and of itself. Why do humans react with deep emotion to some animals while our reaction for other humans may be distant or non-reactive?
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Gala
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jan, 2008 06:51 am
fishin wrote:
You are right that empathy and compassion aren't the same thing but they are closely related (as are pity and sympathy). IMO, a person who is able to express empathy is more likely to be able to express compassion as well.


I agree. A person who is capable of expressing empathy can, in equal measures express compassion. The question remains: would you prefer to be pitied (compassion)or understood (empathy)?
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Gala
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jan, 2008 07:09 am
SallyMander wrote:
Well, when it comes to giving money to bums, empathy is not my operator. I think the bums I see in my town are usually interested in getting alcohol or drugs with their panhandled money, so I have been known to buy coupon books from the nearby McDonald's and hand out coupons. Come to think of it though, there's a street musician I give money to and I think he needs the cash. He plays the "Internationale" which I find interesting, so I generally ask him to play that. Smile

Sal


I've read about this practice-- to give a food offering to someone who is homeless instead of money. I prefer to give them money-- because, if they want to buy booze or drugs, who am I to stop them? If that gives them pleasure, albeit temporary pleasure, then let them enjoy, especially when their lives are as unstructured as living on the streets.

Also, when referring to some of these people as bums you miss the point of their condition. Most homeless people suffer from some kind of mental illness and are unable to function like "normal" people. Just take a close look-- these are not people who who have intentionally become dependent on drugs, or alcohol, or happily given up their homes, families or jobs...sure, there are some who don't want to work at an honest living--they are called criminals.
0 Replies
 
OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jan, 2008 04:04 pm
this sucks, environment plays a big part of a childs development doesnt it?

I grew up around nothing but meth, death cops and gangsters, coke hustlers and theifs.

lol, i never grew up, i just survived.

sorta random, what can i do to actually help children in abject poverty? i don't trust any charities. nevermind, ill have to go out and help them personally if i want it to get done.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jan, 2008 05:44 pm
SallyMander wrote:
Well, when it comes to giving money to bums, empathy is not my operator. I think the bums I see in my town are usually interested in getting alcohol or drugs with their panhandled money, so I have been known to buy coupon books from the nearby McDonald's and hand out coupons. Come to think of it though, there's a street musician I give money to and I think he needs the cash. He plays the "Internationale" which I find interesting, so I generally ask him to play that. Smile

This is a far cry from empathy vs. compassion. I think one needs to look very closely at a person to elicit either one from our normal operating system. I did feel a little compassionate the other day when I came across an injured sparrow on the sidewalk downtown. He had apparently thwacked into a store window. But I was on lunch hour and it wasn't practical to bring him back to the office. So I looked at the bird for a very long time. I suppose it's empathy to look and compassion to act?

Sal

U wanted him to play the communist[/i][/color] anthem ?
0 Replies
 
SallyMander
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jan, 2008 06:32 am
I still think empathy connects to innate human "identification," and "compassion" plugs into some kind of valuing upon which individuals act, with or without empathy, but that ideally the two would interrelate in adults.

Genuine empathy and compassion would then connect infantile and mature egocentricity. We choose to act, consciously or unconsciously based on resonance with something we have experienced, personally, vicariously, or categorically in relation to some intent--or whim, as personal expression.

Because we choose and act on some level, our compassion is our own product, and therefore personal to-us, no matter who or what we see on the outside. Hm. I wonder who thinks of empathy and compassion for themselves? Probably a good zone to develop. I love the Casals quote, which I find related, winding up with "And when you grow up, can you then harm another who is, like you, a marvel?" Somewhere in this entire (long) quotation is illustrated my view of the interrelationship between empathy and compassion, at this writing, anyway.

http://www.4starbiz.com/missdeal/marvel.html

-S
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jan, 2008 08:05 pm
Empathy and compassion for the communists
is in bad taste. Wud u do the same for the nazis ?
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dant
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jan, 2008 04:34 pm
Then there is the 1/3 principle that applies to a person's personality as far as compassion:

1/3 nurture
1/3 genes
1/3 environment

Obviously you can't control genetic makeup but you can somewhat control the other two.

Ogionik, sounds like you a had tough time of it, but you're a caring person despite all that you went through. Genetic?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Jan, 2008 05:08 pm
dant, I think there are some circumstances in which an individual can control their gene to some degree.
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dant
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jan, 2008 11:34 pm
How do you control genes, cicerone imposter? That's an interesting concept.......
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jan, 2008 01:07 am
You don't control the gene, but the influence we can have on it to some degree by health habits and care.
0 Replies
 
 

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