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Is compassion learned?

 
 
Reply Wed 16 Jan, 2008 03:52 pm
There are several topics on A2K about how different people state their opinions about a) it's okay or not okay to use airplanes to bomb targets that also kills innocent people, b) the pros and cons of universal health care, and c) why do we donate or don't donate to charities.

Who or what has the most influence on people about compassion?

Is it genes and/or the environment?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 5,865 • Replies: 89
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jan, 2008 04:10 pm
I'd like to introduce another contradiction about people in general.

Many people would join the military at the risk of sacrificing their life, but feels providing univeral health care for our citizens is too much of a sacrifice (medical care isn't free). I see this as a contradiction; but it may be because I'm missing something. I'd like to learn what that is.
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dlowan
 
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Reply Wed 16 Jan, 2008 04:21 pm
I don't think it's a genes vs learning thing, but a both thing.


For instance, we have things we are calling "mirror neurones" which, when we are attuned to another's feelings, even on film, fire in a manner reflective of the neurones that are firing in the other person....however, this capacity actually to "feel" another's experience, does not develop normally in us when we have not experienced empathic, attuned care in our lives...ie we must have experienced sufficient empathy in order to feel it.

I think the ability to be able to hold in our minds, and react emotionally, to the experiences of others is a basic building block of compassion.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jan, 2008 10:13 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
I'd like to introduce another contradiction about people in general.

Many people would join the military at the risk of sacrificing their life, but feels providing univeral health care for our citizens is too much of a sacrifice (medical care isn't free). I see this as a contradiction; but it may be because I'm missing something. I'd like to learn what that is.


What you are "missing" is the ability to objectively evaluate issues from multiple viewpoints.

Why is there a contradiction there? Because both involve someone's health? Is that the only possible iten that the two have in common?

People have freedom of choice as to whether or not they join the military.

Many are against being forced to comply with/participate in a state run healthcare system. - i.e. they are against having freedom of choice to participate (or not) taken from them.

Maybe some people value an absolutely certian loss of the freedom to make a choice more than they value the possible impairment to life/health resulting from decisions that they have a choice in making?

From a "freedom of choice" viewpoint there is no contradiction. There are probably a bunch of other viewpoints that could converge on these two items as well. Some might result in contradictions, others won't.

One can not have compassion for another without having empathy and one can not empathize with another until you are able to see the world through their eyes and filtered through their value system.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jan, 2008 10:32 pm
fishin, Thank you for your contribution.

Here are some quesitons for consideration:
a) military service is voluntary now, but that can change with government sanctions
b) amongst all of the social services provided by government (currently), how would you prioritize 1) mandate on emergency room care, 2) social security, 3) education, 4) police and fire protection, 5) national security, and 6) health of our children
c) if we are now spending the greatest percentage of our GDP on our health care vs other universal health care countries, how do we justify not having universal health care?
d) is it more important to support a war in Iraq at a cost of 2.7 billion over providing more benefits for US citizens?

Do we have a choice?
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jan, 2008 11:32 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
fishin, Thank you for your contribution.

Here are some quesitons for consideration:
a) military service is voluntary now, but that can change with government sanctions
b) amongst all of the social services provided by government (currently), how would you prioritize 1) mandate on emergency room care, 2) social security, 3) education, 4) police and fire protection, 5) national security, and 6) health of our children
c) if we are now spending the greatest percentage of our GDP on our health care vs other universal health care countries, how do we justify not having universal health care?
d) is it more important to support a war in Iraq at a cost of 2.7 billion over providing more benefits for US citizens?

Do we have a choice?


What does any of that have to do with the philosophical question as to the nature of compassion? Or were you just looking for another place to advance a political agenda? You picked the wrong forum...
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2008 01:26 pm
I would have thought rather that one learns NOT to be compassionate.

Compassion doesn't require empathy - it simply requires acceptance of the other person for who they are and what they feel.

The reason we don't feel compassion is because we have all these thoughts of ourselves - our wants, our expectations, our morals, our opinions, our ideals etc etc etc, floating through our head and getting in the road of compassion....rather than just accepting the other person as they are and as they feel.
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2008 01:29 pm
Re: Is compassion learned?
cicerone imposter wrote:
There are several topics on A2K about how different people state their opinions about a) it's okay or not okay to use airplanes to bomb targets that also kills innocent people, b) the pros and cons of universal health care, and c) why do we donate or don't donate to charities.

Who or what has the most influence on people about compassion?

Is it genes and/or the environment?


If you read the new novel, "NEXT" you'll come to the conclusion that compassion has it's basis in DNA.
I think that empathy is a better term than compassion.

Don't you?
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Gala
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2008 01:36 pm
vikorr wrote:
Compassion doesn't require empathy - it simply requires acceptance of the other person for who they are and what they feel.


At first I read this and thought, whu? But...in a sense, compassion is not really active.
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2008 01:48 pm
Gala wrote:
vikorr wrote:
Compassion doesn't require empathy - it simply requires acceptance of the other person for who they are and what they feel.


At first I read this and thought, whu? But...in a sense, compassion is not really active.


Sense compassion is "heart-felt", there must be a biochemical constitutent to this aspect of behavior.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2008 01:52 pm
Miller, I believe you are right about chemical element in our brains for this and all other types of behavior that results from depression to feeling of happiness.
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2008 01:54 pm
The question arises then CI, is what triggers that particular element.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2008 01:57 pm
I'm not sure; but it's probably genes and environment. I know many forms of depression can be controlled with drugs, and simple things like chocolate and ice cream stimulates good feelings.
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Gala
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2008 01:59 pm
vikorr wrote:
Compassion doesn't require empathy - it simply requires acceptance of the other person for who they are and what they feel.


Heart-felt for compassion. Whereas in empathy an interaction takes place.

Compassion is not a word I use, ever. Empathy, I use. Maybe because compassion addresses pity and therefore imbalance. We're all in the same boat-- born vulnerable, die vulnerable.
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2008 02:20 pm
Quote:
I'm not sure; but it's probably genes and environment. I know many forms of depression can be controlled with drugs, and simple things like chocolate and ice cream stimulates good feelings.
Quote:
Compassion is not a word I use, ever. Empathy, I use.


I would agree - I would very rarely use it.
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2008 02:29 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
I'm not sure; but it's probably genes and environment. I know many forms of depression can be controlled with drugs, and simple things like chocolate and ice cream stimulates good feelings.


Very true and that's why fatty fast foods have so much appeal in the USA today. People feel good after they've eaten these foods.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2008 04:07 pm
vikkor, Are you familiar with bipolar?
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2008 04:17 pm
There's a guy at work we call bipolar.

I'm familiar in a general way with it's effects, though not with it's causes.

May I ask what that has to do with someone experiencing compassion?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2008 04:41 pm
It follows from the simple fact that chemical changes in the brain has an effect on how we our able to respond to others. It's all part and parcel of how our brain works, and how depression and happiness may influence empathy/compassion in some way. People with bipolar are fighting a personal battle that goes beyond their ability to have compassion for others - IMHO. I believe bipolar is debilitating to most individuals who are not treated with drugs. That's only my personal opinion.
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vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2008 04:48 pm
Hmmm...you are simplifying a complex subject.

Firstly, you are comparing the chemical imbalance of a person suffering a mental illness with a normal persons feeling of compassion.

Secondly, Bi-Polar is not properly understood (or they'd be well on the way to developing a cure for it). There may be a mental trigger to it, it may be entirely genetic - who is to tell?

Third, as per my previous email, a 'compassion chemical' (if one exists) can't be triggered by the environment - we first have to perceive the environment, interpret it, and only then can a chemical be released.

I've little doubt there are other inconsistencies in such a comparison.

As I said previously though...I'm of the opinion that compassion is simply an acceptance of who a person is and what they are feeling/experiencing at the time. No chemical is needed for that.
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