0
   

The Swift Boaters Are Alive And Well

 
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 06:02 pm
Quote:
Bugging out when the shooting starts - so suddenly that a crewmember falls overboard - and then, when the firing is done, coming back to pick him up, is a few steps short of heroism.


Quote:
Account of others at scene: Several people, such as Larry Thurlow, who was the skipper of another swift boat present during the operation, PCF-51, and Van O'Dell, who reportedly was on a boat near Kerry at the time, have reportedly said that there was no hostile fire at the time


Sorry, but you were making up "facts" george if we accept the account of the Swifties.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 06:03 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
Kerry isn't running for election this year.

Next?

Kerry isn't running but the people that bankrolled the smear campaign against him are still bankrolling political committees.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 06:39 pm
Exactly my point. The problem are those 527s not Kerry's medals. It isn't just the swiftboat 527 that is a problem. The whole 527 concept needs some sunshine.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 11:52 pm
Kerry made the fatal mistake of waiting too long to reply. I hope that the Dems have learned a lesson with that and now immediately, and forcefully, reply.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 10:29 pm
In fact he never replied, except to obfuscate the issues. He promised to permit the Navy torelease his service record, but somehow never got around to actually doing so.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jan, 2008 11:27 pm
those on our side are just passaging good
good; information passed by the other side is an abomination
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 07:56 am
parados wrote:
Quote:
Bugging out when the shooting starts - so suddenly that a crewmember falls overboard - and then, when the firing is done, coming back to pick him up, is a few steps short of heroism.


Quote:
Account of others at scene: Several people, such as Larry Thurlow, who was the skipper of another swift boat present during the operation, PCF-51, and Van O'Dell, who reportedly was on a boat near Kerry at the time, have reportedly said that there was no hostile fire at the time


Sorry, but you were making up "facts" george if we accept the account of the Swifties.



In fact, georgeb1 never replied except to obfuscate the issue.
0 Replies
 
Gargamel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 09:42 am
The good news is that Vietnam was essentially before Obama's time. If the Swift Boat Asswipes for Douche try to drum up some dirt outside their jurisdiction (war), even the reactionary weridos on A2K will recognize these curmudgeons for the hacks they truly are.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 09:47 am
Gargamel wrote:
The good news is that Vietnam was essentially before Obama's time. If the Swift Boat Asswipes for Douche try to drum up some dirt outside their jurisdiction (war), even the reactionary weridos on A2K will recognize these curmudgeons for the hacks they truly are.


my you are an optimist....
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 09:57 am
salaam aleikum
0 Replies
 
Winthorpe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Jan, 2008 04:22 pm
I think Obama will be OK
If you look at his ratings on sites like Fit to be President, it's clear that he's popular with Dems and GOPers.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2008 10:21 pm
blatham wrote:
snooder

Take a peek here...
Quote:
Saturday January 5, 2008 06:27 EST
Jonah Goldberg and Glenn Reynolds warn of "social unraveling" if Obama loses
(updated below)

Over at National Review, Jonah Goldberg has a "theory" about what might help Obama win in the general election. After noting that Obama will be "the first serious mainstream black contender for the White House," Goldberg warns (emphasis added):

Quote:
I think it's worth imagining a certain scenario. Imagine the Democrats do rally around Obama. Imagine the media invests as heavily in him as I think we all know they will if he's the nominee -- and then imagine he loses. I seriously think certain segments of American political life will become completely unhinged. I can imagine the fear of this social unraveling actually aiding Obama enormously in 2008.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/?last_story=/opinion/greenwald/2008/01/05/obama/

You black people are dangerous.

To inform or remind those who didn't know or have forgotten...
Quote:
Goldberg's career as a pundit was launched following his mother Lucianne Goldberg's role in the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal, when he wrote about the "media siege" on his mother's apartment in the New Yorker.[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonah_Goldberg[4]


This is a silly interpretation of what Goldberg has written.

There is no reason to suggest that Goldberg believes Obama should not run because if he does and loses, certain "segments of American political life" will become "unhinged." These segments need not be exclusively, or predominantly black to fit into Goldberg's prediction.

He doesn't mention this in the quote but I would go so far as to suggest there is a fairly good possibility that an Obama loss will result in social unrest, (particularly if the loss is by a margin reminiscent of Gore v Bush). I will go further and say that any such situation of social unrest will be focused on the black community in America.

This is hardly a radical prediction. Whether understandable or not there have been numerous incidents over the last few decades where a perception by the black community that they have been jobbed has led to social unrest.

I do think it is a stretch, by Goldberg, to suggest that the threat of such unrest will benefit Obama. First of all, it will never be discussed in the media. Secondly to the extent that there is even a whiff of it in the campaign, I have no doubt that Obama would discount and repudiate it. To think he might try to slyly benefit from it is too cynical by more than a half. Note of course, that Goldberg didn't suggest otherwise.

The overt or covert message in Goldberg's piece isn't even remotely that "black people are dangerous." Leave it to the glib blatham to make such a point.

As to Finn, yes black people can be dangerous. Just as dangerous as any group of people who for any number of valid and invalid reasons have been led to believe that violent reactions are somehow appropriate.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2008 10:40 pm
Yeah Finn, - you're right - black people are just one of the groups of people that Goldberg may have been referring to, but it isn't "silly" to observe that they are probably the ones he meant.

To say that's silly sure seems like bass ackwards chop logic...

...Blatham is far from a lonely voice noticing what was being suggested.

This is from the linked article:

Goldberg, of course, doesn't have the courage to say explicitly who he means -- he just implies it with ugly innuendo -- but Glenn "Instapundit" Reynolds helpfully fills in the gap, approvingly quoting and praising Goldberg's warning ("He's right"), and then adding that if Hillary "outmaneuvers" Obama to win, "that'll probably alienate a lot of people and cause them to stay home in November." Just to make sure the meaning is clear, he then links to one of his own prior posts warning that a Hillary win might anger "black voters" and cause them to abandon the Democrats.


I think the suggestion was clear that de natives might get restless if Obama loses.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2008 11:15 pm
snood wrote:
Yeah Finn, - you're right - black people are just one of the groups of people that Goldberg may have been referring to, but it isn't "silly" to observe that they are probably the ones he meant.

To say that's silly sure seems like bass ackwards chop logic...

...Blatham is far from a lonely voice noticing what was being suggested.

This is from the linked article:

Goldberg, of course, doesn't have the courage to say explicitly who he means -- he just implies it with ugly innuendo -- but Glenn "Instapundit" Reynolds helpfully fills in the gap, approvingly quoting and praising Goldberg's warning ("He's right"), and then adding that if Hillary "outmaneuvers" Obama to win, "that'll probably alienate a lot of people and cause them to stay home in November." Just to make sure the meaning is clear, he then links to one of his own prior posts warning that a Hillary win might anger "black voters" and cause them to abandon the Democrats.


I think the suggestion was clear that de natives might get restless if Obama loses.


Without doubt the suggestion was that the black community might react violently if Obama loses. Obviously he was referring to this community and no reasonable interpretation of my post could lead to the conclusion that I believed otherwise. Once again you are trying to make points arguing against an assertion never made. I believe you Liberals love to call this a "STRAWMAN!"

Now tell me, do you believe that it is far fetched to believe that an Obama loss will result in social unrest within the black community? This is irrespective of whether or not there may be any justification for this unrest. Is it far fetched to believe that the defeat of a black candidate in a national election will result in social unrest in the black community?

Goldberg is rendering his opinion on a purely political basis. You and blatham bring to this opinion all sorts of predetermined positions.

People who discuss blacks as the political bloc they are or the cultural entity they are, are not necessarily racists. It's a cheap shot to insist otherwise, and it's ignorant. Blacks do represent a political bloc. Whether they should or not is an entirely different subject, but they do. Pretending that blacks vote in the same patterns as are seen in the general electorate is silly. That they don't doesn't mean that they are inferior, despite the perception of those with humongous chips on their shoulders.

BTW All the cute plantation jargon you can throw into the debate doesn't make your point any more cogent.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2008 11:24 pm
Quote:
Now tell me, do you believe that it is far fetched to believe that an Obama loss will result in social unrest within the black community? This is irrespective of whether or not there may be any justification for this unrest. Is it far fetched to believe that the defeat of a black candidate in a national election will result in social unrest in the black community?


Does this mean that if Hillary loses, it will result in social unrest in the female community? Is it as far fetched to believe that a defeat of a female candidate in a national election will result in social unrest and perhaps no nookie in the bedrooms and no home cooking in the kitchens of America? Are we women expected to take to the streets and riot if Hillary loses? Do you expect female business executives to resign their jobs in protest?


If not, why the double standard?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2008 11:52 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
Quote:
Now tell me, do you believe that it is far fetched to believe that an Obama loss will result in social unrest within the black community? This is irrespective of whether or not there may be any justification for this unrest. Is it far fetched to believe that the defeat of a black candidate in a national election will result in social unrest in the black community?


Does this mean that if Hillary loses, it will result in social unrest in the female community? Is it as far fetched to believe that a defeat of a female candidate in a national election will result in social unrest and perhaps no nookie in the bedrooms and no home cooking in the kitchens of America? Are we women expected to take to the streets and riot if Hillary loses? Do you expect female business executives to resign their jobs in protest?


If not, why the double standard?


Is there any relatively recent history of a wide community of females reacting to a political or social event with sudden social unrest? Is there any history of a wide community of female riots comparable to those that followed the assassination of MLK or the acquittal of the cops in the Rodney King cases?

Of course not.

Is there any history of a wide community of African-Americans reacting to a a political or social event with sudden social unrest.

Absolutely.

To suggest that there is a double standard is to suggest that the female and black experience in America is identical. As much as Liberals would like to claim that it is, clearly it is not.

If Hillary loses, the chances of social unrest by female Americans is slim to nil.

If Obama loses, the chances of social unrest by African Americans is something greater. How much greater will depend upon how much gasoline is thrown on the fire by so called black leaders like Al Sharpton.

I fully appreciate that the narrow minded members of this forum believe that in these comments I have revealed myself to be a racist.

Fine. I know I am not.

To the extent that the black community reacts differently than any other to this or any other political event is not because of their race, but because of their experience. This doesn't mean that all of their reactions are appropriate, just, or well reasoned, but chances are they are all understandable in terms of tracking cause and effect.

This is the truth without value judgment.

Blacks have, recently, rioted within the cities of America. Females have not, and neither have Buddhists, Amputees, Calvinists, Libertarians, Librarians, Estonians, or the Obese. Whites did at one time, but when was the last time that happened?

Put aside whether or not black riots were justified. They happened. As a result, it is not far-fetched to assert that should Obama lose blacks will riot again.

In my opinion they will not happen unless agitators make a point of inciting them, but it is simply silly to assert that their likelihood is on a par with the likelihood of female, war veteran, evangelical, et al riots.

Nothing is to be gained by ignoring fact and probability in preference to PC sensibilities.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2008 12:20 am
Laughing You racist Finn.
















Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Now tell me, do you believe that it is far fetched to believe that an Obama loss will result in social unrest within the black community?
The honest answer here has to be no... and I'm answering it because I nearly posted the question (but didn't… in anticipation of the prescribed response, which was, of course, delivered quick enough to make Pavlov proud). Unlikely it may be but far fetched it isn't.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2008 01:16 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Laughing You racist Finn.
















Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Now tell me, do you believe that it is far fetched to believe that an Obama loss will result in social unrest within the black community?
The honest answer here has to be no... and I'm answering it because I nearly posted the question (but didn't… in anticipation of the prescribed response, which was, of course, delivered quick enough to make Pavlov proud). Unlikely it may be but far fetched it isn't.


I wouldn't bet that it will happen either, but I won't be shocked if it does. Frankly, it never occurred to me until I entered this thread.

Not that any discourse on this topic can benefit the common good, but certainly there is no benefit coming to it with a load of reflexive piss and vinegar.

But the P&V plays better to the larger audience.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2008 03:04 am
How far back do you want to go? These are occurrences around the world just in the first two weeks of 2008. And don't dismiss it as mostly being from third-world countries. I snuck an article in there about a recent protest right here in the USA too. There is a common thread running through all these instances that could easily be taken up by American women.

Quote:
Women protest against corruption, burn effigy
Saturday January 5 2008 09:56 IST
Express News Service



BELGAUM: Taking up the corrupt practices at Government offices and injustice in issuing ration cards, about thousand women under the banner of Durgashambhavi Mahila Mandal, Khasbag conducted a massive protest rally, here on Friday.
Traffic on busy Rani Chennamma Circle came to a stand-still for about one-and-half-hour on Friday morning.

The protesters conducted a human chain and burnt the effigy of corruption at the Circle to express their angry. Youth leader Anil Potdar led the agitation. In the firing line were the Food and Civil Supplies, Women and Child Welfare Departments and the Tahshildars' offices.



http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IEK20080104233507&Page=K&Title=Southern+News+-+Karnataka&Topic=0

Quote:
Women Protest Against Sexual Harrassment
On Friday, around 150 women marched in Taksim in order to protest against the sexual harrassment of women on New Year's Eve and the fact that the police released the suspected perpetrators.



07-01-2008


http://www.bianet.org/english/kategori/english/104017/women-protest-against-sexual-harrassment

Quote:


http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iJtjn0aaAE0C5B5nbRS3Rduy2_hw


Quote:
Peace groups protest armed color guard for MLK vigil
Click-2-Listen
By LAURA GREEN

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Saturday, January 12, 2008

In 1963, 21-year-old graduate student Vicki Ryder flew across the country to hear the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. deliver his now-famous I Have a Dream speech in Washington.

When King was gunned down almost five years later, Ryder said, she was working in Georgia, registering blacks to vote. The civil rights leader had such an effect on her that when her first son was born months later, she took "Mar" from Martin and "K" from King and named her baby boy Joshua Mark.

Now, 39 years later, as Lake Worth prepares to celebrate King Day later this month, Ryder is protesting the annual candlelight march to honor her hero's memory.

A contingent of uniformed high school students carrying decommissioned military weapons will be leading the Jan. 21 procession - a mockery of King's message of peace, local peace activities say.

"It's not a day to glorify war," said Ryder, founder of the local Raging Grannies group. "It's a day to reflect on peace."


http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2008/01/12/s1c_skparade_0112.html


Quote:
Greece: Women Protest in Monk Sanctuary
Wed Jan 9, 2008 2:22 PM EST
Costas Kantouris, AP Writer

A group of female protesters locked in a land dispute with the Greek Orthodox Church defied a 1,000-year-old ban and entered the all-male Mount Athos monastic sanctuary in northern Greece, a police official said Wednesday.

A police spokesman said on customary condition of anonymity that the small group of nearby villagers, including at least six women, climbed over a fence Tuesday and briefly entered the self-governing peninsula, where women are strictly forbidden.

Parliament member Litsa Amanatidou Paschalidou was among the women who entered the sanctuary. She called it a "purely symbolic act," which was meant to send a message to the church to "pursue policies which serve the public and not its financial interest."

The protesters, who say the monks are making illegal claims on their property, broke away from a rally of more than 400 people and evaded a police cordon, entering Athos grounds.



http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2008/01/09/1215248-greece-women-protest-in-monk-sanctuary


Quote:
Women protesters face police batons in Pakistan
14 November 2007

Mass arrests and detention of political activists from opposition parties have taken place over the past three days across the country. Police have used batons and tear gas to disperse peaceful protests before arresting them.

In Lahore today (Wednesday), 37 women political activists belonging to opposition Pakistan People's Party have been remanded in jail custody for six days by an anti-terrorism court. Police have filed charges under the Anti-Terrorism Act.

The women include Mehreen Raja, a member of National Assembly, and two members of the Punjab Assembly, Farzana Raja and Uzma Bokhari. There have been reports that women protesters were severely beaten by the police.



http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/women-protesters-face-police-batons-pakistan-20071114


Quote:
Published on Saturday, July 20, 2002 in the Minneapolis Star-Tribune
Nigerian Women's Protest Wins Oil Company Attention
Editorial

In the best traditions of Mohandas Gandhi and Martin Luther King, several hundred Nigerian women took a nonviolent stand for their country. Ranging in age from 25 to 90 -- some with infants strapped to their backs -- the women held a successful sit-in at a ChevronTexaco Escravos facility in Nigeria's oil-rich delta.

Without firing a shot or injuring a soul, they shut down an operation that produces a half million barrels of oil a day. In the end, they accomplished what their men could not, and what their government should have done long ago.

Nearly two weeks ago, about 600 women took an estimated 1,000 oil workers hostage by occupying the control room, docks and landing areas of the island facility and blocking all arrivals and departures. When company executives initially balked at demands, the mostly elderly women threatened to strip naked, which in their culture is a method of shaming others.




http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0720-05.htm
0 Replies
 
 

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