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Get yer polls, bets, numbers & pretty graphs! Elections 2008

 
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Mar, 2008 10:37 am
Finally some numbers. Kos' count:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/5/3265/76888/604/469268

Quote:
Vermont (15 delegates)

Obama 9
Clinton 6


Rhode Island (21 delegates)

Clinton 12
Obama 8


Texas

Primary (126 delegates, Link)

Clinton 64
Obama 62

Caucuses (67 delegates; tentative results based on a straight percentage from 34% reporting)

Obama ~37
Clinton ~30

Total (Nowhere near final)

Obama ~99
Clinton ~94


Ohio (141 delegates, punching in results with 97% reporting here)

Clinton 73
Obama 68


So total for the night, thus far, is Clinton 185 and Obama 184. Not all votes are in, so things will change a bit. But at this point, we have a ridiculously tiny one-delegate lead for Clinton for the night, which could either produce her first delegate victory of the election, or be erased by the rest of the still-not-reported Texas caucuses.


First Read has different numbers (but note that they don't include the TX caucus):

Quote:
*** The delegate count: Based on preliminary results of last night's contests (the Texas caucuses are not yet factored in), here's where the Democratic delegate count stands: Obama 1,518, Clinton 1,429. The NBC News Hard Count has Obama at 1,307 to 1,175 for Clinton after last night's voting. The superdelegate count stands at Clinton 254, Obama 211. Here's how the states broke down: VT: Obama 9-6; OH: Clinton 73-62 (six unallocated); RI: Clinton, 13-8; TX: Clinton 46-34 (113 unallocated). That's a net gain of 23 pledged delegates for Clinton. But before figuring out the Texas mess, Clinton had a net of approximately 13 delegates. If Obama wins the delegate battle in Texas (which the allocation formulas seem to indicate), he'll cut that 13 net by as many as 6. However, one estimate in Texas has Obama netting no more than one after the caucus, giving Clinton the possibility that she'll net more than 10 delegates when March 4 is all said and done. While not MAJOR progress on the pledged delegate front, it's impressive nonetheless since so many folks predicted her not even netting 10 delegates last night.
0 Replies
 
nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Mar, 2008 10:59 am
nimh wrote:
nappyheadedhohoho wrote:
nimh wrote:
Dude - up in the Panhandle Hillary leads Obama 2:1 pretty much everywhere. Obama's really got a problem with rural whites.


The majority will vote for McCain in the general. In the primary, some were probably voting for Clinton to keep her in the race just as some voted for Obama to shut out Clinton.

True - I forgot about that. I doubt it explains the full extent of the margin though. I mean, the trend is consistent: Clinton pretty much always does especially well in (white) rural areas. Just the sheer proportions of her lead in the Panhandle struck me.


I'd emailed a friend in N. Texas to ask if he was considering a 'strategy' and he replied that although tempted, there were too many other important ballot considerations. But for that, maybe there may have been an even bigger blowout by Clinton in that area. Too bad it wasn't an exit poll question.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Mar, 2008 11:35 am
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1204709601137420.xml&coll=2

Quote:
Republicans switch to vote for Clinton to help McCain
Others in GOP say she's better candidate
Wednesday, March 05, 2008
Joe Guillen
Plain Dealer Reporter

Republicans across Ohio jumped party lines during Tuesday's primary and voted Democrat - for reasons both pure and sinister.
Some wanted to clear a path for Republican victory in November. Others simply preferred one of the Democratic candidates.

In the Republican roost of Chagrin Falls, veteran poll worker Liz McFadden was amazed at the number of people jumping the party's ship. Democrats accounted for 70 percent of the voters in her precinct, one of seven at the village's high school.

"That's a complete reversal of what it normally is, even more so," she said. "I've never seen a switch like this."

Shortly before polls closed in North Ridgeville in Lorain County, one precinct showed 64 Republicans had crossed out of 589 voters.

In Chester Township in Geauga County, also a GOP stronghold, Democrats had outvoted Republicans by nearly 50 percent early in the going.

"I voted for Hillary," said Republican Eric Klieber, 56, of Cleveland Heights. "John McCain has a better chance of beating her than Barack Obama. . . . If the Democratic race was decided, I'm sure a lot of them would vote for the candidate less likely to win."

Clinton was the defector's choice in Cincinnati, too. In Hyde Park, an affluent neighborhood, a volunteer for Clinton said a number of Republicans told her they voted for Clinton in hopes of seating a Republican in the White House in November.

"It doesn't bother me," Brenda Weaver said, while passing out campaign literature outside a church. "I say, 'Way to go, more votes for her!' "

John McClelland, a spokesman for the Ohio Republican Party, said he was unfazed by the anecdotes, "as long as they turn around and vote Republican in the fall." But some Republicans might have switched for good.

In Strongsville, middle-aged couple Lucy and Pete See - longtime Republicans - both voted for Clinton.

"I like that she has more experience in foreign affairs," Pete See said. "The Republican candidate was older than me."

Lucy See said she voted for Clinton as well. "I want to be part of making history," she said.



http://www.western-star.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/03/05/hjn030508voting.html

Quote:
Voters turn blue by crossing over
Wednesday, March 05, 2008
HAMILTON -- Butler County has turned blue.

Primary election results show there are now considerably more Democrats registered in the county, according to the Butler County Board of Elections.Of the ballots requested Tuesday, March 4, 48,991 were for Democrat, and 39,747 for Republican, according to the BOE. Before the primary, there were 45,711 registered Republicans and 21,640 Democrats

"Usually Republicans outnumber Democrats by 2 to 1," in the county, McGary said. "We won't know exactly how many switched over until we are able to certify results as official."
Marilyn Hatfield, an associate judge in Ward 3, precinct 3 at Christ United Methodist Church in Middletown, said she's seen more Democrats than normal in the precinct, which is usually heavily Republican.

"Several people said they were pulling Democratic ballots because of what Rush Limbaugh said," Hatfield said.

Limbaugh said Friday, Feb. 29, on the O'Reilly Factor that the battle between Democrats Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama was "too good a soap opera" and that Clinton needed to stay in the race as long as possible to damage Obama politically in a way McCain would not.


And, on the O'Reily Spin Room radio show last night, I heard sub-host Tony Snow say he'd seen reports that up to 10% of Hillary's votes were from republicans who had switched at Limbaugh's urging.

Haven't found a script or other reference to it yet.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Mar, 2008 11:45 am
And here's more:

Quote:
Go and check the exit polls. In Wisconsin, Republicans made up 9 percent of the Democratic primary vote. Obama won them 72-28 over Clinton. Just as tellingly, 14 percent of primary voters said they were "conservative," and Obama won them 59-40, a bigger margin than he won with liberals or moderates. Tactical voters who said Obama stood a better chance of winning in November? They went for him 87-13.

Now, look at Ohio. Once again 9 percent of voters were Republicans, but Obama and Clinton split them evenly, 49-49. Once again, 14 percent of voters were "conservatives," and Obama and Clinton split them 48-48. (Obama did better with them than he did with liberals and moderates.) Those tactical voters who thought Obama could win gave him a 80-18 victory, a margin twelve points smaller than the margin in Wisconsin.

It's a similar story in Texas, where Limbaugh has the most listeners of any of these states. Obama won the Republican vote 52-47, but conservatives (22 percent of all voters, up from 15 percent in the Kerry-Edwards primary) went against Obama. For the first time since Super Tuesday, they were Clinton's best ideological group: She won them 53-43. And Clinton won 13 percent of the people who said Obama was the most electable candidate.


http://reason.com/blog/show/125327.html

Links in original.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Mar, 2008 12:00 pm
I think instances like these are sufficient reason for the Obama campaign to opt out of the public-funding proposal for the general election and can easily be justified to his supporters who will be disappointed by it.
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maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Mar, 2008 12:04 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
I think instances like these are sufficient reason for the Obama campaign to opt out of the public-funding proposal for the general election and can easily be justified to his supporters who will be disappointed by it.


If it happens I could see myselft never voting for a democrat again.

"Public financing is great.....unless you really want to win the election"

How much more two-faced could you get?
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Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Mar, 2008 12:18 pm
You change your mind about which candidate you'll support about every three days. How seriously is anyone supposed to take your threat?
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Mar, 2008 12:26 pm
maporsche wrote:

How much more two-faced could you get?


Oooh, let me try. How about "I am honored to be here on this stage with .... shame on you Barack Obama!"
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maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Mar, 2008 01:14 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
You change your mind about which candidate you'll support about every three days. How seriously is anyone supposed to take your threat?


It's not MY theat you should take seriously.

It's the future of public financing, which is obviously the better way to go for our country.


Ignore my threat, and tell me how a candidate who supports public financing, and a party who supports public financing, will look when they reject public financing "because they really want to win?"
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Mar, 2008 01:19 pm
Heh...


TPM has some new delegate numbers and they look pretty convincing to me -- they suggest that once the TX caucus is factored in, Hillary will have netted only about 10 delegates, possibly as few as 8.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03/latest_tally_hillary_may_emerg.php

It also looks like once the TX caucus stuff is factored in, Obama won more delegates in TX. (Right now she has a +4 edge in TX and they seem to think that when the caucuses are factored in Obama will gain 7 delegates. That would leave him with a 3-delegate lead there.) If so, is that a "win," or not? When Bill Clinton et al said that Hillary had to win both TX and OH, what did they mean? Can it really be argued that they just meant the primary part of it? Why all the emphasis on "vote twice," then?
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Mar, 2008 01:31 pm
It takes two to tango and the whole band needs to be playing the same tune while they tango. Until that happens there isn't much likelihood of public financed campaigning ever happening.

There are a lot of election law loopholes that need to be plugged and enforced to allow the likelihood of a publicly-financed campaign to exist and be fairly conducted. The only way such laws will ever have a chance of being passed is during the off-season between election years.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Mar, 2008 01:46 pm
maporsche wrote:
Ignore my threat, and tell me how a candidate who supports public financing, and a party who supports public financing, will look when they reject public financing "because they really want to win?"


So if Hillary gets the nomination she'll take public financing, right? Right.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Mar, 2008 02:33 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
maporsche wrote:
Ignore my threat, and tell me how a candidate who supports public financing, and a party who supports public financing, will look when they reject public financing "because they really want to win?"


So if Hillary gets the nomination she'll take public financing, right? Right.


I hope so.

As far as I know she never put that option on the table.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Mar, 2008 02:35 pm
So she doesn't support public financing then? Is that why she never put it on the table? So Obama is two-faced for putting the option on the table and then refusing to definitively choose that option before he's even the nominee, but Clinton is just okey-doke for rejecting public financing outright.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Mar, 2008 02:39 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
but Clinton is just okey-doke for rejecting public financing outright.


I don't know that she's rejected public financing? Do you?

If she did I wouldn't say it was okey-dokey.

But it's not two-faced.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Mar, 2008 02:42 pm
Obama has also not rejected public financing.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Mar, 2008 02:44 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
Obama has also not rejected public financing.


I didn't say he did.

I said "IF" he does.


Stop building strawmen.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Mar, 2008 02:48 pm
And IF he beats his wife he'd be a criminal. And IF Hillary smokes crack she'd be a crackhead. The strawman is yours.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16759052/

(I apologize for the thread diversion)
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Mar, 2008 02:52 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
(I apologize for the thread diversion)



Apology accepted.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Mar, 2008 05:03 pm
HOW'D THE POLLS DO?

TEXAS

Kudos to the pollsters overall: every single one of the pollsters that kept polling into the very last days of the campaign -- and there were seven of them -- correctly pegged the last-minute trend towards Hillary. All of them had Hillary gaining on Obama in their last poll out.

For over a week the three-day average had shown Obama in the lead; only on March 2, two days before the election, did the balance swing to Hillary again. On average, the polls whose 'midpoint'* was in the last three days of the campaign (March 1-3) showed Hillary leading by 1.4%. If you look only at the polls whose midpoint was in the last two days, the average even pegged Hillary's lead at 2.3%. In reality, it was 4%. Not bad.

Not all pollsters did equally well though, of course. This update of my graph shows that: the big red ball on the right is the actual result.


http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3031/texasfebevalzv2.png


InsiderAdvantage, Zogby and ARG were closest; their last poll out had Hillary leading by either 3% or 5%. Zogby's kudos here rest on a last-minute correction; the second last edition of its daily tracking poll still had Obama leading by 3%.

But overall none of them did badly. PPP and ABC/WaPo also had the lead within 3 points, well within the margin of error (remember that the MoE doubles if you look at the difference between two candidates rather than at one candidate's number). Survey USA and Rasmussen were five points off, which should still be within the MoE.

OHIO

Again, the pollsters did pretty well all in all. In Ohio, too, all the six pollsters that tracked public opinion into the last three days of the campaign picked up on the movement towards Hillary in those last days.

In all, a three-day average of polls had Hillary's lead down to 3-4% a few days before the primaries. But come the day before the elections, Hillary's lead was at over 7% again. Narrow it to a two-day average and her lead was 8.5%.

In reality, it was 10%. So again, Hillary outdid the polls still, but they got close.

There were bigger differences between the polls here though. Or one, anyhow. See this update of my graph, with the big red ball on the right designating the actual result. Most all of the polls trended right towards the actual result, though ARG predictably overshot the target somewhat. But one pollster was off in leftfield, and ended up looking a little silly: Zogby.


http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/5918/ohiofebevalji6.png


The last edition of Zogby's daily tracking poll was off a full 10%. Survey USA on the other hand was right on spot, polling a 10-point Hillary lead. Which is an exact echo of what happened in California, when Zogby predicted an Obama win and ended up way off, while Survey USA pegged the size of the Hillary win spot-on.

SUSA wasnt the only pollster who did well though. PPP and the University of Cincinnatti came within 1 point. The Suffolk poll was very close too (sorry Cyclo), at 2 points from the actual result. Rasmussen and ARG were both off 4 points. Rasmussen did a good job in its last poll out, which corrected a mere 2-point Hillary lead to a 6-point one; ARG would have been better off not doing its very last poll, as its previous one had been closer (still). But all of them well within the margin of error. Only Zogby failed.

LAST TWO WEEKS OF CAMPAIGN A WASH

Interesting point to note: the end results in both states basically mirrored where the race had been two weeks out from the elections. On 16-17 February, the development of the polls basically showed a 10-12 point Hillary lead in Ohio and a 4-5 point Hillary lead in Texas, and that's pretty much where the race ended up at. So in the last two weeks out campaigning, the two candidaes basically scored a draw (whereas in the weeks before Obama had been steadily winning).


* By "midpoint" I mean that, if a poll was conducted over several days, the middle of that period fell in these three days. (And I've included polls that were conducted on Feb 29 - March 1.)
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