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Get yer polls, bets, numbers & pretty graphs! Elections 2008

 
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 09:12 am
Thanks Butrflynet! I'm still seeing different numbers all over the place though. Oh well. Hopefully by February 15th, when NM certifies their results, there will be more clarity.

nimh wrote:
Camp Obama foresees winning 19 of the remaining 27 primaries and caucuses - but losing Texas, Ohio and Pennsylvania


Did you see this analysis of why Camp Obama may have released that info (though of course it maybe was just an actual accident...)?

http://www.able2know.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=3083531#3083531
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 04:18 pm
CNN, analysis of why Obama does better vs. McCain than Hillary does:

Quote:
In both polls, Obama looks stronger than Clinton. Why?

Obama's explanation: "I think there is no doubt that she has higher negatives than any of the remaining Democratic candidates. That's just a fact, and there are some who will not vote for her."

That was three weeks ago. Now, only two Democratic candidates remain.

Clinton does have higher negatives than Obama -- and McCain. Forty-four percent of the public say they don't like Clinton, compared with 36 percent who don't like McCain and 31 percent who don't like Obama, according to the CNN poll conducted February 1-3.

Why does Obama do better against McCain than Clinton? Obama does do a little better than Clinton with independents and Republicans.

But the big difference is men: Men give McCain an 18-point lead over Clinton, 57 percent to 39 percent, according to the CNN poll. The margin of error for that question was plus or minus 5 percentage points.

But if McCain and Obama went head to head, McCain's lead among men shrinks to three, 49 percent to 46 percent -- statistically a tie.

Women, on the other hand, vote for either Clinton or Obama by similar margins.

Some Democrats may be worried about how Obama will fare with white voters. Whites give McCain a 15-point lead over Clinton, (56 percent for McCain, 41 percent for Clinton).

But Obama actually fares better than Clinton with white voters. McCain still leads, but by a smaller margin, (52 to 43 percent).

Obama argues that he can reach across party lines. And he does do a little better than Clinton with Independents and Republicans, at least in these polls.

But the big difference is that Clinton doesn't draw very well with men. Obama does.


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/08/20008.matchups.schneider/index.html

I also hadn't seen those latest negatives, RJB was asking about those recently. (44% don't like Clinton vs. 31% don't like Obama.)
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Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 04:19 pm
Yes I did and I agree with the Daily Dish reader's comment.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 04:23 pm
Oh I was asking nimh actually, not clear. (Thanks for your take tho!)
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realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 05:41 pm
realjohnboy wrote:


I today got my 1st phone call re Tuesday's primary here in VA. There will be more.


6 pm. A recording, not a "live" person called. The male voice asked questions to which I was supposed to respond orally.
What struck me first was his "radio voice." He had absolutely no discernible regional accent. And he talked so damn fast, which we in Virginia don't do. We talk slow.
He asked a series of questions to which I responded "yes" or "no" randomly.
At the end he identified the survey group but he did it so fast I couldn't catch it. Kind of what you might hear at the end of an ad for used cars and the interest rates and other terms.
I may be wrong, but the call seemed to me to be pro-
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 06:29 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
Nimh, fyi, in case you haven't yet seen it. The Obama campaign has posted their spreadsheet of delegate allocations by state and candidate:

http://origin.barackobama.com/resultscenter/

Thanks!
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 06:40 pm
sozobe wrote:
nimh wrote:
Camp Obama foresees winning 19 of the remaining 27 primaries and caucuses - but losing Texas, Ohio and Pennsylvania


Did you see this analysis of why Camp Obama may have released that info (though of course it maybe was just an actual accident...)?

No, I missed that, thanks for pointing me back. Sounds kind of counterintuitive. If the idea of leaking the analysis was to convey that "the leading candidate -- that will be me", it seems odd to leak an analysis saying that he'll likely lose Texas, Ohio and Pennsylvania and will end up roughly tied with Hillary at the convention..
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 07:03 pm
I don't want to further harm the name of The New Republic among Obama supporters, but they have two further stories up analysing Obama's chances, and I think they're interesting.

The current narrative is that Obama will sweep home all the primary states this month, and then face trouble in OH, TX and PA. But was it smart of the Obama campaign to basically reinforce the impression that all of the primaries this month are in Obama country? It's not exactly managing expectations, and these two items preview how the races in Virginia and, yes, Hawaii might be more fraught than is generally accepted:

Neither piece is particularly down on Obama; but both are pretty level-headed down to the nitty-gritty analysis of the forces at play.

Key excerpts about Hawaii:

Quote:
Barack Obama will probably win Hawaii on February 19. He does have a "home state" advantage and an organizational edge, since the state has a caucus. But here's something to ponder: almost 60% of Hawaiians are Asian Americans--as Isaac pointed out, by far the most anti-Obama demographic in the United States in the primaries thus far. [N]ot to mention that Hawaii's Democrats are notorious machine politicians, closely tied to the military and to huge unions that are officially in the tank for Clinton. [..]

[A] local expert, Ira Rohter from the University of Hawaii at Manoa, reveals that the Democratic establishment is aggressively working to inoculate the state against Obama--priming their warhorses, the two biggest government unions, for a major turnout effort and bringing professional organizers from the mainland.

During the 2004 primaries, Dennis Kucinich apparently caught them by surprise, coming in second place with the help of left-wing progressive organizers. Now warned, they've vowed to prevent a repeat performance by Obama. [..]

[A]s always, Obama's campaign has focused on community organization in a way that Hillary's doesn't even attempt to do. "They're doing all the right things," Rohter, a campaign-organization junkie, tells me. [But] the Democratic establishment there is powerful, and it's fighting him with everything it has.


Key excerpts about Virginia:

Quote:
Virginia [..] tends to get lumped in with Maryland and D.C. into the "Potomac Primary" on Tuesday. But Virginia's demographic profile is much less favorable to Obama than its Beltway cousins and the Deep South states where he's won so far. It's a border state, and only 19.9 percent black. Its closest demographic parallels among states that have voted so far are Tennessee, where Obama lost by 13 points, and Missouri, where he won by only ten thousand votes.

In 2004, African Americans made up 33 percent of the Democratic primary electorate in Virginia. If the proportion is the same this year and Obama wins them 80-20, he'd need about 37 percent of the white vote to win the state. That's certainly achievable, given his totals elsewhere. But it's no sure thing. In Tennessee, he won only 26 percent of the white vote; in Missouri he won 39 percent. In other Southern states his totals have ranged from to 25 percent (Alabama) to 43 percent (Georgia).

Is there reason to believe that Virginia's white Democratic electorate will be more predisposed to vote for Obama than it was in Missouri and (especially) Tennessee? Yes, due to the growing strength of upscale, educated liberals in the Washington suburbs. But while this difference is real, it isn't overwhelming. Using income as a proxy, in 2004, 18 percent of Democratic primary voters in Virginia made more than $100,000. This year, in Missouri and Tennessee, the comparable figures were 15 percent and 14 percent. That edge goes up slightly when one includes voters making between $75,000 and $100,000 per year, but those voters aren't as reliably pro-Obama as their richer counterparts. In short, one would guess that Obama would do somewhat better among whites in Virginia than he did in Missouri and Tennessee--but not dramatically better, all else equal. [..]

[E]ven if Obama wins the statewide vote, the delegate count might not break his way, since his strongest supporters, African Americans, are packed heavily into two of the state's eleven congressional districts. Overall, Obama can expect to have the edge in four districts (the two heavily black districts and two more in the Washington suburbs), while Clinton can plan on doing well in four heavily white districts in exurban and rural Virginia. The remaining three districts remain up for grabs. [..]

So why is Virginia [..] being lumped in so casually with the other Obama-friendly states? It could well be [because] DC-based pundits say to themselves, "Well, I live in Virginia, and all my friends are voting for Obama, so he must be the favorite." But that's a misleading picture--in 2004, only 28 percent of Democratic primary votes in the state were cast in the inner Washington suburbs [..]. There are still quite a few beer-track, culturally conservative white Democrats in other parts of the state. The primary can be seen, in part, as a contest between pundit Tom Schaller's Virginia (wherein Democrats win by strengthening the Obama coalition of blacks and upscale whites) and political consultant Dave "Mudcat" Saunders's Virginia (wherein they win by peeling off working-class rural whites--and by swearing. A lot.) Neither one of these camps is clearly stronger than the other, which is exactly why commentators should expect the Democratic primary to be close. [..]

The Obama team [has] done nothing so far to temper the developing narrative that any Obama loss prior to March 4 would be a big upset. In fact, they've stoked it. [..] The Clinton campaign, by contrast, seems to be deliberately nursing that narrative, while making a strong below-the-radar play for Virginia [..]. An unexpected Clinton win in Virginia--which should not really be unexpected at all--might be enough to deflate Obama's strong February [..].
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 07:14 pm
Thanks Nimh.

I guess that I can only take heart that Survey USA has Obama up by 20 in VA.

Cycloptichorn
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 07:18 pm
Well thats certainly a good sign! Especially re how we just discussed that theyve done very well so far...
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realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 07:22 pm
VIRGINIA EST OMNIS DIVISA IN PARTES QUATTOR *

I intended to write about VA tomorrow, after Saturday's contests but before the primaries on Tuesday in MD, DC and VA. I see that Nimh has posted an article about VA, which I have not read and will not read until after I post my feeble attempt at analysis. Watch this space.

* Thanks to George in Boston.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 07:24 pm
Yup. And +19 in MD according to them too.

Cycloptichorn
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Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 07:42 pm
The Obama campaign put out an urgent request for assistance because of widespread reports of voters being turned away from voting locations (similar to what happened in Los Angeles.) People are arriving at voting places to find out that their registration was mysteriously changed to independent or republican and are being told they can't vote.

The Louisiana SOS just put out word that this is wrong and that people can vote using provisional ballots so now the Obama campaign is trying to make calls to all the LA voters to go back to their polling place and request the provisional ballots.

Ben, over at Politico is chalking it up to the election systems being stretched to the max due to voter turnout and the high number of independent voters. But, I'm not buying it. That doesn't explain the mysterious party switches that voters didn't register for.

I hope we don't now have to dig into the accuracy of computer systems used for processing and producing printouts for voter registrations at voting locations too.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 08:06 pm
realjohnboy wrote:
I intended to write about VA tomorrow, after Saturday's contests but before the primaries on Tuesday in MD, DC and VA. I see that Nimh has posted an article about VA, which I have not read and will not read until after I post my feeble attempt at analysis. Watch this space.

Looking forward to it!
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 08:07 pm
Me too!

Need to get going... good news so far, hope that things aren't hopelessly screwed up in Louisiana.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Feb, 2008 10:32 pm
Peeking a look at the (preliminary) exit poll data for the primary in Louisiana:

    [b]Race trumps gender[/b]
  • Not much of a gender gap. Obama gets 52% of the male vote and actually 53% of the female vote.

  • Why? Perhaps it's best summed up by saying that race trumped gender, in terms of identity politics.

    - Both white men (66% vs. 28%) and white women (73% vs. 24%) massively chose Hillary over Obama.

    - Both black men (80% vs. 19%) and black women (84% vs. 16%) massively chose Obama over Hillary.

    - If anything, women were thus a little more racially polarised still then men.

  • Overall, Obama got 26% of the white vote, which is at a par with what he got in Oklahoma, Tennessee, Alabama, South Carolina and Florida, but far below what he got in almost all other primary states that voted last Tuesday.

    Men and whites as likely as women and blacks to vote on the basis of race or gender

  • Only 6% of voters said that "the gender of the candidate" was the "single most important factor", and surprisingly, they broke between the two candidates evenly. Meaning there were as many men voting primarily on the basis of gender as there were women.

    Another 18% called gender "one of several important factors" and again they split rather evenly, belying the notion that there's just all these women who vote their gender.

  • Same story, strikingly enough, on race. 8% of voters called "the race of the candidate" the "single most important factor" - and they went to Hillary by a 5-point margin. Including the 16% for whom it was "one of several important factors," voters broke almost evenly as well.

    Meaning, presumably, that there were as many white people wanting to vote for a white candidate as black voters wanting to elect a black person. (Assuming that the group of whites wanting to vote in a black person because of his race is small.)

    Obama wins most age groups, but suffers from low turnout among young (black and white) voters and high turnout among old (white) voters

  • The youth didnt turn out in any particular numbers: 18-29 year olds made up just 10% of voters, versus, for example, 14% in South Carolina and 18% in Georgia.

    - Specifically, Obama succeeded in winning over more than 50% of white young voters in Georgia and SC, who came out in high enough numbers to account for 5-8% of the electorate. In Louisiana, they mostly stayed home, making up just 3% of the electorate (too small a group to have crosstabs by candidate).

  • Obama did best among 25-39 year olds, of whom he won an overwhelming 71%. His support was still a convincing 55% among 40-65 year olds, and dropped to 34% among those aged over 65.

    - Specifically, he actually did well across all ages among blacks, getting 80+% of all age groups over 30 (and oddly, somewhat worse among twenty-something black voters). Among whites, his support was only a little more uneven, varying between 31% among 45-59 year olds and 21% among those aged 65+.

    The reason the overall numbers show such an enormous age gap anyway is because white voters were overwhelmingly middle-to-old aged, and thus made up a much larger share of the 65+ group than of the younger groups.

    An income, but especially education gap

  • Obama did best among those earning $30,000-$50,000, and had a clear lead among all groups with higher incomes than that too. Clinton pulled him to a draw among the quarter of voters earning less than $30,000 though.

  • The education gap is, as usually, larger than the income gap. Obama is leading Hillary by 19 points among the third of the voters who are college graduates. But he's tied with Hillary among the quarter of voters who have only high school, and trails her by 21 points among the one in twelve who didnt finish high school.

    Hillary has the last-minute momentum again?

  • Perhaps somewhat worryingly, while Hillary, as always, did best among those who long ago made up their mind, and Obama did best among those who decided sometime last month or last week, those who only made up their mind in the last three days or today broke evenly among the two candidates.

    The same happened on Super Tuesday - last-minute deciders then actually went for Hillary. That's in contrast to earlier primaries, when Obama lived up to his reputation of being a "great closer" and swept that group.

    People want change -- but does readiness for change require self-confidence?

  • Hillary wins the voters citing experience, electability, or "caring about people like me" as prime considerations but no matter -- over half of the respondents said it was the ability to "bring about needed change" that mattered most, and Obama swept home among those.

  • Obama actually did better among those citing the economy as first priority than among those citing Iraq - which is very unusual. But again, race might be throwing in some confusion (perhaps black voters, more likely to vote for Obama, are also more likely to cite the economy and jobs rather than Iraq?)

  • At the same time (contradictorily), the normal patterns did hold in that the more confident respondents were about the country's economy and their own finances, the more likely they were to have voted Obama.

    Campaign attacks elicit disapproval but not yet resentment

  • 51% of voters said that Hillary Clinton had attacked Obama unfairly. But 40% said that Obama had attacked Clinton unfairly, so the contention is hurting both.

  • Nevertheless, about two-thirds of the voters still said they would be satisfied with Hillary (68%) or with Obama (63%) as nominee. (The difference suggests that what bitterness there is, is actually greater among Hillary voters than among Obama supporters.)

  • 54% said that Obama "would be most likely to unite the country"; bit 44% said Hillary, so less of a lead there than expected.

  • More voters thought that Bill Clinton helped Hillary's campaign (39%) than that he hurt it (29%).

    Region and religion

  • Obama did equally well among Protestants and Catholics, which is important because in earlier primaries he seemed to have a problem among Catholics.

  • The more religious, the more likely to vote Obama - I'm wild-guessing a function of race (Afro-Americans go to church more frequently than whites?)

  • Obama easily won in the "New Orleans area" and the "Protestant North" [sic], but tied with Hillary in "Cajun Country". He did best in cities and small towns, worse in suburbs, and worst in rural areas.

    (Considering the overwhelming contrast between how blacks and whites voted this might again just primarily be a reflection of where one and the other group live.)

    Of Dems, Indies, liberals, conservatives

  • For once, Obama's lead is even across both Democrats and self-described Independents.

  • Interestingly, Obama does better among white independents (trailing by 13) than among white Democrats (trailing by 57). (White Democrats outnumbered white independents 4.5:1.)

  • Obama's support is even among liberals, moderates and conservatives.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 01:51 am
http://www.cagle.com/news/SuperTuesday08/images/lester.jpg
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 08:22 am
CNN's current delegate counts:

Obama (pledged only) = 908

Hillary (pledged only) = 877

Obama (pledged + superdelegates) = 1,039

Hillary (pledged + superdelegates) = 1,100
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 08:24 am
Apparently 372 superdelegates left who haven't declared their intentions... though of course even the already-declared ones can change their minds.
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maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2008 10:30 am
sozobe wrote:
Apparently 372 superdelegates left who haven't declared their intentions... though of course even the already-declared ones can change their minds.


The non-superdelegates can change their minds also (at least most of them can).
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