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Get yer polls, bets, numbers & pretty graphs! Elections 2008

 
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2008 01:23 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
And Gallup moves closer nationally.

Quote:
The latest Democratic numbers show Hillary Clinton with a 43% to 39% advantage over Barack Obama among Democratic voters nationwide. That 4-point lead is the narrowest since early January, and it is a continuation of gains by Obama. The impact of John Edwards' exit from the Democratic race is less clear. Wednesday night's numbers (the first with Edwards excluded from the ballot) show no clear indication that either candidate is benefiting disproportionately. Clinton and Obama will debate in California tonight, which could affect Democrats' support for the two candidates going into the weekend before Super Tuesday's primaries and caucuses


Tonights' debate is critical and I hope Obama steps up to the plate. A poor performance won't help him whereas a great one could seal the deal.

Cycloptichorn


Which deal is that? You don't mean a great debate performance will seal the nomination "deal", I'm sure?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2008 01:23 pm
sozobe wrote:
Yeah, I'm on pins and needles about the debate. Especially how he's going to strike that balance of standing up for himself but not being perceived as being "mean" to Hillary. I'm glad it's one-on-one so no "ganging up" is possible.

What I'd hope to see -- never strike first. Let her make accusations and answer them in a measured, factual way. Talk about the economy a lot. Show his deep knowledge. Tell some personalized stories about people he's met, mentioning them by name. Make some self-deprecating jokes.


Yes. His famous wit could seal the deal here.

He needs to get a chance to get rolling on some topics. If the moderators ride his ass too hard it will be a big negative for him. Now, if Hillary gets asked about Wal-mart and the latest Bill scandal, then I think she will be in trouble with a lot of viewers.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2008 01:26 pm
snood wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
And Gallup moves closer nationally.

Quote:
The latest Democratic numbers show Hillary Clinton with a 43% to 39% advantage over Barack Obama among Democratic voters nationwide. That 4-point lead is the narrowest since early January, and it is a continuation of gains by Obama. The impact of John Edwards' exit from the Democratic race is less clear. Wednesday night's numbers (the first with Edwards excluded from the ballot) show no clear indication that either candidate is benefiting disproportionately. Clinton and Obama will debate in California tonight, which could affect Democrats' support for the two candidates going into the weekend before Super Tuesday's primaries and caucuses


Tonights' debate is critical and I hope Obama steps up to the plate. A poor performance won't help him whereas a great one could seal the deal.

Cycloptichorn


Which deal is that? You don't mean a great debate performance will seal the nomination "deal", I'm sure?


His trendlines are fantastic. He is literally rising everywhere across the nation. He raised an unprecedented amount in January and 99% of it from individual donors.

I really think that he's close, real close, in a lot of states and a great performance tonight will dominate the news cycle till Tuesday. If he does well the pundits will lap it up and the papers will too. With the superbowl this Sunday, two days are cut out of the public consciousness; I think that tonight's debate will be the candidates last chance to make a meaningful change in the electorate before next Tues...

Of course, a little birdie told me to watch out for Obama and Edwards appearing on Good Morning America tomorrow - together. So that may work in his favor as well.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2008 01:26 pm
nervous time.....
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2008 01:27 pm
snood wrote:
nervous time.....


Yes, me too

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2008 01:31 pm
I'm so nervous I don't even know if I can watch the debate. I don't think I've ever felt this nervous for a candidate before.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2008 01:34 pm
blatham wrote:
Thomas wrote:
Well, they can always fall back on suggestively repeating Obama's middle name. Judging by the non-representative sample I've seen, that seems to work suprisingly well.


You'll like this bit from Ann Coulter's last anti-McCain diatribe...
Quote:
But like the Democrats, McCain thinks if he simply says something over and over again, he can make people believe it's true.

Anne Coulter is certainly in a position to know.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2008 01:37 pm
New polls from Georgia and Tennessee yield contradictory clues on where Edwards, Giuliani voters go

Three new polls out from the South: two from Georgia (by PPP and InsiderAdvantage) and one from Tennessee (by InsiderAdvantage). All done on Jan. 30, so after Edwards and Giuliani dropped out. With both parties' frontrunners locked in a tight contest, the most pressing question is: where do their voters go?

Well, eh, depends. First the Dems: the two state give off opposite signals.

Edwards: Two states, two conflicting signals

In Georgia, two previous polls this month had Hillary trailing at 33-35% and Obama in the lead with 36-41%. Edwards had 12-13%.

The two new polls show Hillary only modestly higher: 36% and 41%. But Obama gets a major boost: his numbers are suddenly at 51%-52%, or over 10% higher.

So the Edwards folks go to Obama? I mean - there's no apples-to-apples comparison here, as all these polls were done by different pollsters, but it sure looks like that!

Except in Tennessee, it looks like the opposite.

There, two previous polls this month had Hillary at 34% around the 20th, and up at 43% just the other day, the 28th. They had Obama at a modest 20% around the 20th, but up at 32% the other day. Both times, Edwards had 16%.

Now Edwards is out, and a new poll gives Hillary a whopping 59%, while Obama is down at 26%.

So the jury's out on how the game plays out in Edwards' Southern backyard.

What about Giuliani?

In previous polls, Giuliani had a fair share of votes in Georgia; he was no frontrunner, but in two polls this month he had 9% and 11%. Now he's dropped out, and two new polls have appeared.

But the results are hard to read. Because it's not just Giuliani who is losing votes. Huckabee was the clear frontrunner in this state in both earlier polls this month. He had 31-34%, against 18-19% for McCain and 14-16% for Romney.

But even in this heartland state, Huckabee has now dropped a solid ten points, and is down to 24% in both of these new polls. That means he no longer leads the race.

Whom do the wandering former Huck and Rudy voters benefit? Romney more than McCain, says PPP, giving Mitt the edge with 32% over McCain's 31%. McCain more than Romney, says InsiderAdvantage, giving Mac a comfortable 35% vs 24% lead over Romney.

The Tennesseeans cant help solve this question. There, Rudy never had any support in the first place. The rare supporters of the libertine New Yorker there may have gone to Ron Paul. But the Tennessee poll does give McCain the lead, with 33%, over both Huckabee (25%) and Romney (18%).

In both states, it's still a three-way race.

The numbers

Code:
DEMOCRATS

Georgia, PPP Georgia, IA Tennessee, IA

Clinton 41% 36% 59%

Obama 51% 52% 26%


REPUBLICANS

Georgia, PPP Georgia, IA Tennessee, IA

McCain 31% 35% 33%

Romney 32% 24% 18%

Huckabee 24% 24% 25%

Paul 3% 5% 9%

0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2008 01:41 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
I'm so nervous I don't even know if I can watch the debate. I don't think I've ever felt this nervous for a candidate before.

Echo that...
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2008 01:44 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:


Of course, a little birdie told me to watch out for Obama and Edwards appearing on Good Morning America tomorrow - together. So that may work in his favor as well.

Cycloptichorn


Are you serious?

Rumors! Thursday afternoon!

(Did you see my "if Edwards wanted to help Obama get the nomination" list on the Obama '08 thread?)
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2008 01:50 pm
sozobe wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:


Of course, a little birdie told me to watch out for Obama and Edwards appearing on Good Morning America tomorrow - together. So that may work in his favor as well.

Cycloptichorn


Are you serious?

Rumors! Thursday afternoon!

(Did you see my "if Edwards wanted to help Obama get the nomination" list on the Obama '08 thread?)


yes, I did see those rumors, and they come from the same person who told me that Ted Kennedy was going Obama's way a full two days before the announcement.

I'm praying they are right... apparently according to the fellow many of Edwards' 'big-money' backers are quite against Hillary and would be devastated if he threw his support to her. So there's a lot of pressure for him to -

A, not betray them, and

B, use his influence while it can still matter.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2008 01:56 pm
I question whether polls done on the 30th (the day they dropped out?) are actually measuring the effect of the drop out. I think things were on the move -- definitely in Georgia -- before that. Without daily polls, it's really tough to say.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2008 02:01 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
I question whether polls done on the 30th (the day they dropped out?) are actually measuring the effect of the drop out. I think things were on the move -- definitely in Georgia -- before that. Without daily polls, it's really tough to say.


Yup.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2008 02:11 pm
Digging into the crosstabs of those polls on Georgia and Tennessee for the Democratic race:

  • Counterintuitively, Hillary actually does best among the youngest voters, 18-29 year olds, in both InsiderAdvantage polls. She gets 55% of them in Georgia and 81% in Tennessee.

    This is surprising, but does not appear to be a fluke: in polls by different pollsters earlier this week in Tennessee and Oklahoma, Hillary also did best among the youngest voters. Perhaps another sign that different regions just work in different ways. (Although the new PPP poll from Georgia dissents.)

    Obama does best among 45-64 year olds in both IA polls, and among 30-44 year olds in the PPP poll.

  • Obama 20 points behind among whites in Georgia, 45 in Tennessee. Obama does better among whites in Georgia than he did in South Carolina, getting 33% and 36% of the white vote there in the two polls, against 51% and 56% for Hillary. But he only gets 19% of them in Tennessee to Hillary's 64%.

  • Georgian blacks have chosen for Obama, Tennesseeans not yet. The two polls on Georgia both give Obama almost three-quarters of the African-American vote. The one on Tennessee has African-Americans evenly divided between him and Hillary.

  • None of the three new polls show much of a gender gap when it comes to the support of Hillary vs Obama.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2008 02:13 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:


yes, I did see those rumors,


I was asking whether you saw this list, that I wrote at 8:28 EST this morning:

sozobe wrote:
Last night I had this thought. If I were John Edwards and I wanted Obama to win the nomination (once it became obvious I couldn't), what would I do? I realized I'd probably:

1.) Stay in the race through South Carolina to siphon off the white vote there.

2.) Let it be known that I'd leave the race the morning after Hillary's big "win" in Florida to dominate the coverage that day -- 4 hours of chatter and speculation, about an hour for the press conference/ announcement itself, and then more chatter about the announcement and implications.

2.a) But say nothing about whether I'll endorse anyone and in fact make it seem very possible that I'll endorse no-one, making it big news when I:

3.) Let hints -- but nothing definite -- drop on Thursday afternoon/ early evening that I might be endorsing Obama, shortly before the big debate, in time to rattle Hillary.

4.) If Obama does well in the debate, hold off a bit and let that coverage percolate; if Obama doesn't do well or just does OK, let it be known Friday morning that I'll be endorsing him, then endorse (with much hoopla) about mid-day.


(Is it just me or is the site really dragging??)
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2008 02:19 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Of course, a little birdie told me to watch out for Obama and Edwards appearing on Good Morning America tomorrow - together. So that may work in his favor as well.


Oh, that would be a smart move!

Like you say, tonight's debate is Very Important. Which is scary, because debates arent Obama's forte. CW, at least, after the debates so far has always been that he either lost or came out equal with Hillary.

But an Edwards endorsement would also be Big News. Imagine --if Obama does do less well than Hillary in the debate, the news of an Edwards endorsement the next morning would immediately distract a lot of the media attention from the endless post-game punditing on a "Hillary comeback". And of course, if Obama does well in the debate, an Edwards endorsement the next morning would only amplify the momentum he'd get from that.

Smart, smart - if it will happen.

(I'm italicizing "if" because I'm a bit nervous about everyone talking up a possible Edwards endorsement on the basis of rumours, and then getting all mad at him if he doesnt make one.)
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2008 02:20 pm
sozobe wrote:
4.) If Obama does well in the debate, hold off a bit and let that coverage percolate; if Obama doesn't do well or just does OK, let it be known Friday morning that I'll be endorsing him, then endorse (with much hoopla) about mid-day.

Ah, I see that Soz was already roughly thinking along the same lines...
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2008 02:22 pm
Sorry Soz, yes, I saw that post this morning.

I am not holding my breath, but I have the audacity to hope that it is true.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2008 02:26 pm
Rasmussen daily tracking poll (national) has Clinton and Obama even after Edwards drop-out

Careful with those numbers, but quote Exclamation :

    In the race for the Democratic Presidential Nomination, it's now Hillary Clinton 42% and Barack Obama 35%. [i]Last night was the first night of interviews without John Edwards in the race. For last night's data alone, Clinton and Obama were essentially even. Samples for individual nights are very small and results should be interpreted with caution. [/i]
link
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jan, 2008 02:30 pm
(Site perked up.)

That would be awesome awesome awesome.

That would be:

Saturday, January 26th: Big Obama win in S.C.

Sunday, January 27th: Caroline Kennedy endorses in NYT

Monday, January 28th: Ted Kennedy endorses, giant rally, much coverage.

Tuesday, January 29th: Florida elections focus almost entirely on Republicans, with some coverage of Hillary trying to make MI and FL count after all -- much of it negative.

Wednesday, January 30th: Edwards drops out, much coverage.

Thursday, January 31st: The Big Debate. Rumors of an Edwards endorsement begin.

Friday, February 1st: Edwards endorses. Front-page NYT article about Bill and a shady business deal.

Saturday, February 2nd and Sunday, February 3rd -- Super Bowl weekend.

Monday, February 4th: ?

Tuesday, February 5th: Tsunami Tuesday.


If Edwards endorses tomorrow, Obama OWNS the 10 days before Super Tuesday.

If.

And barring other unforseen possibilities -- Gore endorsing Hillary, say, or some unknown Obama dirt.
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