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Get yer polls, bets, numbers & pretty graphs! Elections 2008

 
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2008 01:33 pm
(you are good, Nimh)

Do the polls also report on the others?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2008 02:00 pm
realjohnboy wrote:
(you are good, Nimh)

Do the polls also report on the others?

Sure! Polling Report has the lot of them.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2008 04:10 pm
Latest poll out of SC, taken January 14-16. Obama's "truce" press conference was the afternoon of the 14th, so probably realistically it was about 1/3 before and 2/3 after. Seems like these things take a while to percolate through to respondents, too -- like Mark Penn announcing that there hadn't been any Iowa bump, and then a day or two later, whoops, there it is.

But this one is pretty sharply divided along racial lines, which is good in terms of a win there but might be worrisome in terms of the big picture.

http://www.kansascity.com/445/story/449071.html
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jan, 2008 09:21 pm
Yeah, I'm gonna have to make an update..

Meantime, I do have an update for the Republican race in South Carolina - primaries are in less than 36 hours, right?

Latest polls show some interesting movements:

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/7489/screpsnh5.png

Summary bullet points:

  • Romney gets some bounce out of his win in MI, but it's rather modest: the three polls done largely after news of his victory broke have him at 17-20%, while previous polls had him fluctuating between 12-17%;

  • Thompson however is also making a comeback of sorts, steadily climbing in the polls from 5-12% early this month to 13-17% in the last few days, so he's hot on Romney's heels;

  • Both look like they're going to be competing only for third place though, as McCain and Huckabee are still ahead significantly;

  • Ever since momentum switched from Huckabee (post-Iowa) to McCain (post-NH), McCain has enjoyed a modest but consistent lead over Huckabee and the rest, but now the race is tightening again. Huckabee has incrementally inched back up, and the last Rasmussen poll has him level with McCain for the first time since NH.

I'm gonna bet this one on Huckabee..
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 02:51 pm
Nevada - Democrats

Well, so much for a possible surprise score by John Edwards, which suddenly seemed possible when he got 25-27% in the first two polls from Nevada...

There's two new polls out for the Nevada caucuses. Both of 'em have Hillary Clinton in the lead, Obama trailing by 5-9%, and John Edwards far behind in the lower tens.

Reuters/C-Span/Zogby
1/15-17/2008

42% Hillary Clinton
37% Barack Obama
12% John Edwards
0% Dennis Kucinich

9% Undecided

From the write-up:

Quote:
Clinton held a strong advantage in the city of Las Vegas, with the support of 48% support of likely Democratic voters who live there. Obama attracted 36% of that group and Edwards 10%. Obama, meanwhile, did better in the rest of the state, taking 41% of support to Clinton's 31% and Edwards' 16%.

Clinton had a strong lead among women, with 46% of their number supporting her, compared with 36% for Obama and 12% for Edwards [..]. Obama and Clinton were just a point apart among male supporters, him winning 39% and her 38%. The two top candidates' performance among different age groups were virtual mirror images of one another, with Obama dominating 54% to 28% among the 18-29 bracket and Clinton winning a hefty 57% of those over age 65 to Obama's 25%. Clinton had more support from those aged 50 to 64, while Obama led among voters aged 30 to 49.

Pollster John Zogby on Nevada: "[..] Noteworthy is the tale of Black America vs. White America. Obama leads among African Americans 81% to 16%, while Clinton leads among whites 46% to 31%. What this portends for other states we will have to wait and see.

Significantly, Clinton leads among Hispanics 51% to 27%. Clinton also leads among Moderates. The two top candidates are battling it out among union members.

"A majority of Democratic caucus voters say that they favor a candidate who represents change (53%) rather than experience (36%). Among those who cite change, Obama wins 50% to Clinton's 29%. Among those who cite experience, Clinton receives 64% to Obama's meager 10%."


Review-Journal/Mason-Dixon
1/14-16/2008

41% Hillary Clinton
32% Barack Obama
14% John Edwards
3% Dennis Kucinich

10% Undecided

From the write-up:

Quote:
"Clinton's base is women and voters over 50, and she does well with Hispanic voters," said pollster Brad Coker, Mason-Dixon managing partner. [..]

Obama dominates among black voters, favored by 65 percent to Clinton's 18 percent, but they make up just 10 percent of likely caucus-goers. Hispanics make up 15 percent of likely caucus-goers and favor Clinton over Obama by 50 percent to 29 percent.

Obama, who has gotten a major boost from the Culinary union, also leads among union households, but by only 7 percentage points over Clinton. [..]

Clinton leads among women, 49 percent to 28 percent, and among those 50 and over, 46 percent to 27 percent. Obama leads among men, 37 percent to 30 percent, and voters under 50, 39 percent to 34 percent.

He does better in Clark County, where he polls 34 percent to Clinton's 39 percent, but she leads him by 17 points in Washoe County and 16 points in rural Nevada.

"Hillary Clinton has a solid base of traditional Democrats," said University of Nevada, Reno, political scientist Eric Herzik. "She has the baby boomers. There's a generational split really emerging in this election."

Herzik noted that Clinton had leads of more than 20 points in early polling and has worked hard to bring Nevada Democratic power brokers to her side. [..]

Among those citing experience as their top quality, 84 percent chose Clinton, who had just 10 percent of voters looking for change. Obama was favored by 62 percent of change-seekers, Edwards by 21 percent.

Obama also won with those seeking honesty, 47 percent to Clinton's 26 percent, but Clinton was the favorite of issues voters, 39 percent to Obama's 28 percent. [..]

Clinton narrowly beat Obama among voters who said Iraq was their top issue, but dominated with those citing the economy and health care, getting over 50 percent of those surveyed who prioritized those issues. [..]

Clinton is helped by the fact that economic concerns are eclipsing the war in voters' minds, Herzik said.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 02:58 pm
As for the Republican race in Nevada, the pollsters completely disagree.

There's been three polls out so far, and two of the three (Mason-Dixon and ARG) have Romney strongly in the lead, with 28% and 34% respectively. But the third (Research 2000) has McCain narrowly ahead, with Romney back in fourth place with 15%.

Scores for Huckabee vary from 8% (ARG) to 16% (Research 2000). Scores for Giuliani vary from 6% (Mason-Dixon) to 18% (Research 2000). Scores for Thompson vary from 8% (Mason-Dixon) to 13% (ARG). Only on McCain do they agree: 19-22%.

I'm gonna go with Romney as the winner.. see what happens.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 05:54 pm
Survey USA has had 8 state-level polls out so far this month measuring how the different Democratic candidates match up against the different Republicans in hypothetical match-ups. They covered Washington state, Oregon, Iowa, Ohio, Missouri, Virginia, Kentucky and Alabama.*

It's a good occasion to read today's tealeaves on the Democrats' chances in November; but also to take another look at who seems more electable at state-level: Hillary or Obama? And of course; how's the different Republicans' electability look at the moment?

Despite actual primaries now having been held and the media coverage of the race having escalated, the picture remains quite similar to last month, when I posted a more extensive overview of polls from different pollsters.

Obama does better than Hillary against the Republicans in blue states. But perhaps contrary to expectations, considering the spate of endorsements Obama's had from red state Democrats apparently shirking back from the prospect of dealing with the consequences downticket of having Hillary as nominee, Hillary actually does better in the red states.

Mind you, the four properly red states here are all in the South. Perhaps, as I speculated last month, race still plays a somewhat more pronounced role there. In as far as there's been polls for both Hillary and Obama for states in the West in the past couple of months, there was no similar relative advantage for Hillary.

The rather counterintuitive result of Obama doing better than Hillary in blue states and worse in red states is that Obama, the man of "no red states, no blue states, just the United States" fame, would seem to actually leave the US geographically more polarised than Hillary.

Let's look at the numbers by Republican opponent.


http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/2470/demsvsmccainstatesjan08ad1.png


McCain has picked up significantly compared to December polls, in a swing of over 5 points on average. The result is that Hillary would lose a race against him across the board right now, while Obama would do roughly like Kerry in '04.

Obama matches up better than Hillary in the blue states, and especially well in Iowa (where the poll was held shortly after his win in the caucuses). But Hillary matches up noticeably better in the red states.


http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/3033/demsvsromneystatesjanpv0.png


Against Romney, both Dems would win in a landslide right now. There's not a lot of pattern in the difference between how Romney does now and in December; he does better in some states, worse in others. It does seem like he's getting to do a little better in red states, and sliding back further in blue states.

Obama matches up (much) better than Hillary against Romney in the blue and purple states. But Hillary matches up better in the red states. And again, the redder the state, the worse Obama does in comparison to Hillary, culminating in the deep South (Alabama).


http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5355/demsvshuckabeestatesjannr5.png


Both Dems would do well against Huckabee, if not quite getting the landslide they'd score against Romney. They'd both win the blue states plus Iowa and Virginia, and maybe Ohio. But both would lose in Missouri, Kentucky and Alabama.

Obama matches up better in the blue states and especially Iowa, which he'd take massively while Hillary would struggle. The background here is probably Huckabee's success in the Iowa caucuses, which was in turn trumped by Obama's. But Hillary matches up better in the Southern red states, where she would come close to taking Missouri, for example, where Obama would be clearly defeated.

Against Huckabee, the Dems do better than last month in the blue states, but worse in most red states. Makes you wonder, especially since the same was showing in Romney's numbers, whether people are sorting into their natural constituencies more now that the campaign is getting more media coverage?


http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/4813/demsvsgiulianistatesjanei0.png


Both Dems would run the table of swing states against Giuliani: Iowa, Ohio, Missouri and Virginia. But neither would win Kentucky, which makes Rudy rank between Huckabee and Romney. Again, the Dems do better than last month in blue states, but worse in most red states.

At the risk of becoming repetitive, Obama matches up better in the blue states and especially Iowa; but Hillary does better in the Southern states of Virginia, Kentucky and Alabama; the redder the state, the bigger the difference.

Comparing the Republicans

Of the Republicans, John McCain obviously matches up the best against both Hillary and Obama, while Romney obviously matches up the worst. Huckabee and Giuliani would both do worse than Bush in 04, but not suffer a landslide defeat. Comparing the strengths and weaknesses of those two candidates, Rudy does as well (or badly) as the Huckster in the blue states, but clearly worse in the purple and red states.

_______
*All polls by Survey USA:
Kentucky: 01/07
Ohio: 01/07
Iowa: 01/07
Washington: 01/14
Oregon: 01/14
Missouri: 01/14
Alabama: 01/18
Virginia: 01/18
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 06:39 pm
Bets.

In the SC Repub primary. I see McCain winning narrowly over Huckabee. There are a lot of active duty and retired military folks there who regard McCain as a war hero and a staunch supporter of a strong military.
Huckabee has the evangelical movement behind him.
Third place? Romney has the evangelical movement against him. Rudi has no traction. Thompson seems damn lazy, but I guess I would pick him for third place.

I have no idea about Nevada. Clinton has a lot of support amongt the Hispanic caucus voters but the unions they belong to-some of them-have endorsed Obama. These folks have to declare publically who they will go for.
I see it it as Clinton, Obama and somebody in third place. Distantly.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 07:50 pm
sozobe wrote:
But this one is pretty sharply divided along racial lines, which is good in terms of a win there but might be worrisome in terms of the big picture.

Is it, though? Good in terms of a win?

I mean, I think Obama's heading for a win, way it looks. But I dont think that the "racialisation" of the contest is benefitial for him even in terms of numbers; after all, turnout is expected to be 50% whites 50% blacks. And what he's gaining among blacks, he's losing among whites, so it's pretty much a wash in terms of the total numbers.

Thats probably why the state's top line numbers in the polls havent budget at all throughout this month -- Hillary, with just one exception, at 30-33%, Obama, with two exceptions, at 40-44% -- even as the breakdown of voting preferences by race was clearly changing.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 08:15 pm
nimh, perhaps we need to start looking at the delegate counts a bit more seriously? Where you have two candidates either winning or losing, as the Democrats, it makes sense to continue looking at who wins the states, but where there are at least 3 different winners so far, and could possibly be a fourth winning various states on the Republican side, I think it makes sense to start looking at the delegate counts more seriously. Even with the Democrats, if Edwards can win enough, he could be a factor if he recommends them to Obama.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/delegate_counts.html
http://youdecide08.foxnews.com/2008/01/16/national-delegate-count-tally/

I'm not sure why the sources differ in the totals?
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 08:17 pm
Losing that many whites, eh? That sucks.

I compared Rasmussen polls that were taken on January 9th and January 16th. In the one on the 9th, Clinton had the lead among whites, 40% to 21%, and Obama led among blacks by 23%. In the poll taken on the 16th, Clinton led 44% to 20% among whites and Obama led 64% to 20% among blacks -- almost doubling the previous margin.

It seems like there was more movement of blacks TO Obama than movement of whites away from Hillary. (?)
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 09:39 pm
Sorry Okie, thats the second good question of yours I'm gonna have to come back to later!

Sozobe wrote:
In the one on the 9th, Clinton had the lead among whites, 40% to 21%, and Obama led among blacks by 23%.


I think that was the breakdown of the Rasmussen poll of the 13th. And that poll is an unfortunate point of reference, because it was the only one in the last 9 polls out that did not have Obama in the 40-44% range. At 38%, it had the worst poll showing for Obama of all the January polls, so his bounce back up in the newest Rasmussen poll is perhaps not very representative of the overall trend.

Perhaps a better comparison would be with the Rasmussen poll from the 6th (I could not find a breakdown by race for the Rasmussen poll from the 9th, but the topline numbers for those were identical to the one from the 6th.) In the poll of 6 Jan, Obama had 58% of the black vote and 27% of the white vote; in the latest poll he has 64% of the black vote and 20% of the white vote.

Similarly, two subsequent Insider Advantage polls on 1/7 and 1/14-15 has Obama's support amog blacks going up from 48% to 61%, but his support among whites dropping from 31% to 19%. Disturbingly mirroring numbers.

Anyhow, more fun to puzzle out your own comparisons, so here's the table with the breakdown by black and white constituencies for all SC polls I could find the data for:


http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7971/scdems3racedm3.png
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 09:59 am
A warning about today's primary results and the polls

Just thought I'd flag this: On pollster.com, Prof. Franklin warns:

Quote:
South Carolina has shown suprising numbers of undecided. The Fox poll today, for example, has an unbelievable 19% undecided. That is HUGE [..] so there is a gigantic amount of room for those last minute deciders to break one way or the other.

With a history of under-the-radar negative campaigning in the state, and evidence of the same this year, it would be surprising if we don't see some important shifts here at the end. [..] For me, that 19% undecided in the Fox poll is scary. And fun!

Or in short, the polls could well be way off again -- not so much because they did anything wrong in particular, but because to the last moment, there has been an unusually large number of respondents who just didnt know yet what they were going to vote, and who knows what way they will break.

Well, there is one indication how the race will shake out: if the pattern from IA, NH and MI holds, it will be one single candidate who will benefit greatly. In all those three states, the polls did a pretty good job in getting the numbers right for the candidates who ended up second, third and beyond; but in all three states, there was a winner who ended up getting far more than the polls had predicted.

Which just leaves the question: if the pattern holds and in SC, once again, there will be a winning candidate who wins easily thank to suddenly leaping out ahead from where he was in the polls, who will it be? John McCain or Mike Huckabee?

I'm betting Huckabee, but who knows?
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 10:03 am
nimh wrote:
I'm betting Huckabee, but who knows?


I find that a very sad commentary on the citizens of SC and of the USA in general.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 10:35 am
What kind of commentary is it on you when you relentlessly support a man who polls at 1-4% consistently, and has zero chance of winning?




...just sayin'.....
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 11:36 am
snood wrote:
What kind of commentary is it on you when you relentlessly support a man who polls at 1-4% consistently, and has zero chance of winning?




...just sayin'.....
yes yes, quite right and shocking as well. Next thing you know I might find myself on some internet forum posting an opinion. what could be more awful.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 12:44 pm
dyslexia wrote:
snood wrote:
What kind of commentary is it on you when you relentlessly support a man who polls at 1-4% consistently, and has zero chance of winning?




...just sayin'.....
yes yes, quite right and shocking as well. Next thing you know I might find myself on some internet forum posting an opinion. what could be more awful.


Well, you did suggest it was some kind of commentary on a whole state (and country) that someone was picking Huckabee to win a primary.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 01:47 pm
Nevada - Democrats

John Edwards appears to be cratering in Nevada, as the race there becomes completely focused on the face-off between Hillary and Obama - a face-off in which Hillary remains in the lead.

Results from a Reuters/C-Span/Zogby tracking poll held on 1/17-18, compared with the results of the same poll over 1/15-17:

45% (+3) Clinton
39% (+2) Obama
6% (-6) Edwards
1% (+1) Kucinich
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 01:50 pm
South Carolina - Democrats

Here, too, the face-off between the two frontrunners seems to be sucking up all the oxygen in the race.

Two new polls have a low and decreasing number of undecideds, and both Hillary and Obama surpassing their long-standing ratings of 30-33% and 40-44% respectively.

I can only find a breakdown by race for one of the two polls, and it further confirms the 'racialisation' of the contest.

  • A new Survey USA poll has Hillary at 36% and Obama at 46%. That's up 6 for Hillary and down 4 for Obama compared to the last Survey USA poll - but that one was held right after Obama's Iowa win.

  • A new ARG poll has Hillary at 39% and Obama at 45%. Take the high rating for Hillary (the highest in all polls this month) with a grain of salt; ARG routinely has Hillary higher than all the other polls do, that became very clear in Iowa. Nevertheless, also in comparison with the previous ARG poll from two days ago, Hillary wins a point; but Obama and Edwards win a point each as well, with the undecideds dropping by 3.

  • The Survey USA poll has Obama getting the highest share of the black vote yet in any poll this month (74%); but it also has Hillary getting the highest share of the white vote yet in any poll this month (50%). Compared to the Survey USA poll from directly after the Iowa caucuses, Obama wins 5 points among black voters but loses 7 points among white voters; Hillary loses 3 points among blacks but wins 12 among whites.

  • Other interesting stuff from the Survey USA crosstabs: Edwards does best among conservatives (who made up 13% of the sample -- there's more conservative Dems left in SC than in northern or midwestern states); Obama did best among moderates (39% of the sample) and Hillary did best among liberals (22% of the sample). Obama supporters are more likely to say they have made up their mind while Hillary and Edwards voters are more likely to say they could still change their mind. Obama gets almost two-thirds of the 18-34 year olds, but less than a quarter of the voters aged 65+; Hillary gets a quarter of the young voters but more than half of the retirees.

  • Obama rules among voters who cite education or health care (!) as their top priority, but only edges out Hillary among those who cite Iraq or Social Security (!) - some counterintuitive results there. Worryingly (for Obama supporters), Obama loses out by one point among the largest single group, those who cite the economy as their top issue.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2008 01:50 pm
Live results from Nevada are being posted here:

http://www.nvdems08.com/
0 Replies
 
 

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