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Get yer polls, bets, numbers & pretty graphs! Elections 2008

 
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2008 02:44 pm
nimh wrote:
okie wrote:
Nimh, looks like I missed both of them. I predicted Huckabee would fade and lose to Romney, and Hillary would win.

Well, at least you made predictions! I was too chicken Smile

realjohnboy wrote:
Any bets on NH?

OK, that was always more doable. Here's mine:

Republicans: McCain
Democrats: Obama


Republicans: Romney
Democrats: Obama

The reason I think Romney will carry is that much of the moderate/independent vote that might have gone to McCain will now swing to Obama. Without the swing vote I'm not convinced that McCain can beat Romney in NH.
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realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2008 02:57 pm
Point well taken, JPB, but I am going with:

McCain, Romney, Huckabee
Obama, Clinton, Edwards
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2008 03:31 pm
snood wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
snood wrote:
Why not? You gonna feign like Obama's credibility is the same today as before the Iowa caucus?
No, I was feigning like I was nimh (notice pretty charts from pollster.com). :wink: You may notice; Obama's trending stronger in New Hampshire than he was yesterday in Iowa. And lose the attitude. It's a beautiful day to be an American.


I'm happy as a pig in slop. Nothing wrong with my "attitude" - My simple point is that a lot of people who didn't think Obama had a chance are now thinking twice. No reason Nimh (or you) might not be some of those people.
Sounds like there's a lot of people who's face you could rub that in. Neither Nimh or I qualify. Nimh tracks these things like no one else I've ever even heard of; and I was among the first to recommend Obama to the Democratic machine... and have never recanted. For that matter; I distinctly remember you voicing considerable doubts yourself.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2008 05:11 pm
nimh wrote:
More info on those second choices (from - I know, I know - pollster.com)

Some anecdotal evidence on what happened...

Quote:
Ankeny Post-Game (or: Second-Choicers Kill Hillary)

Ankeny, Iowa

Final raw tally here, after reallocation: Obama 100, Edwards 55, Hillary 54. This precinct sends 6 delegates to the county convention (see Crowley's piece if this is completely opaque to you), which means Obama gets 3 delegates, Edwards 2, and Hillary only 1. This despite losing out to Edwards by a single raw vote.

Obama started out strong and ended strong (87 raw votes after the first round); the Clinton camp started off okay (49 raw votes) but the bottom fell out in reallocation; while the opposite was true of Edwards (41 initial votes). While Clinton only managed to win over 5 non-viable caucusgoers in the second round, Edwards won over 14 to edge her out for second. From my vantage point here, the CW about Edwards being the most popular second-choice pick was absolutely on target.

This second-choice dynamic, if it's repeating itself in precincts across the state, could really end up killing Hillary tonight.
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realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2008 05:21 pm
Obama gets a big bounce out of Iowa going into NH, despite the folks in NH kind of looking down their noses at the caucuses. I see a lot of the young/independents getting behind Obama.

Edwards is the Southerner and perhaps coming across as a little too slick.

Clinton is almost a next door neighbor, even if only as a reverse-carpetbagger.

So I have it as Obama, Clinton, Edwards.

McCain, despite having little money compared to what Romney has spent from his neighboring state, may appeal to enough NH Repubs and some independents to win narrowly; being as comfortable as an old pair of slippers.

I don't see Huckabee's message playing very well in NH.

McCain, Romney, Huckabee in my mind.

By the way, I have yet to see McCain's age ever being raised as an "issue." Watch out for that, in my opinion, particularly if Obama and McCain move on.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2008 05:24 pm
Seems a pretty safe choice.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2008 05:25 pm
Useful and informative link:

A New Hampshire Primer: Everything You Need To Know
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2008 05:25 pm
Good point about age, RJB.

Interesting anecdotal evidence. My first thought is actually that Obama did better in raw numbers than I expected. What with Kucinich and the reports that Biden and Richardson told their supporters to go to Obama if the 15% threshold wasn't met, I was thinking that Obama's raw numbers were lower and there were more second-choicers that went to him.

That's nice that his raw numbers were so good (that he was the first choice of so many).
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2008 08:35 pm
nimh wrote:
O'Bill is right - the polls have been showing Obama surging in NH for some time, and were clearly heading towards an Obama lead. So the prediction isnt a great surprise. But nevertheless I would have been too careful, since the most recent polls (from the last half a month or so) actually showed Obama's rise levelling off again and Hillary stabilising. (This doesnt show up in the more cautious Pollster graphs, but does in my graph of half-a-month averages, which I'll post later today).


Here we are:


http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/6505/nhdemsonlymine040108ip8.png


This was the state of the New Hampshire polls as of the end of December. The end point of the graph represents the average of the 10 polls that appeared in the second half of the month.

As you can see, Obama's rise in the polls appeared to level off, and Hillary's steady drop to stabilise, just short of where he would have caught up with her. (This graph differs from the Pollster.com one, which is more impervious to the short-term trends that might just be statistical noise.)

(CORRECTION: After a latest update taking a couple of polls that were completed on 3 January into account, pollster.com's trendlines now also show up the same pattern - since they are regressive, they are adjusted retroactively.)

So what now?

Expect the Obama trend to resume its rise up, and quite sharply so; and the Hillary trend to start dropping again, perhaps less sharply.

Biden voters, and I think Richardson voters largely too, will now transfer to one of the frontrunners. Anecdotal evidence like the snippet above suggests that they will perhaps move to Edwards or, more likely with the momentum he's now got going on, to Obama. The Richardson/Obama pact should help speed that along.

Edwards, dunno. He actually did very well in the Iowa caucuses, doing better than where the polls had him at for a long time, and better than any pundit was expecting until just a few days before. So if the world were fair, he would actually get a bump in NH for that. But in a winner-takes-all society ("Two is not a winner and three nobody remembers"), coming in second means you've lost, so you'd expect his numbers in NH to sharply drop off now.

Even if they do, however, I have no clue where his voters will go. Hell, I'd be an Edwards voter, and I wouldnt know whether to turn to Obama or Hillary now. There is this impression of the Obama and Edwards supporters forming some kind of anti-Hillary coalition, and when it comes to their voices in the blogs, then that has mostly been true. But for regular voters?

It'd be interesting to dig up the numbers from more polls, but one poll from New Hampshire I came across a month or two ago asked the supporters of each candidate who their second choice would be, and Edwards voters actually were twice as likely to switch to Clinton as to Obama.

That was then, though, and this is now. Hillary doesnt look a particularly attractive choice right now, does she? So that dynamic might well have changed.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2008 08:40 pm
And here's the Republican chart, updated for all the polls that were completed still in 2007:


http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/1711/nhrepsonlymine040108tk4.png


Speaks for itself, really! :wink:
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jan, 2008 11:49 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
snood wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
snood wrote:
Why not? You gonna feign like Obama's credibility is the same today as before the Iowa caucus?
No, I was feigning like I was nimh (notice pretty charts from pollster.com). :wink: You may notice; Obama's trending stronger in New Hampshire than he was yesterday in Iowa. And lose the attitude. It's a beautiful day to be an American.


I'm happy as a pig in slop. Nothing wrong with my "attitude" - My simple point is that a lot of people who didn't think Obama had a chance are now thinking twice. No reason Nimh (or you) might not be some of those people.
Sounds like there's a lot of people who's face you could rub that in. Neither Nimh or I qualify. Nimh tracks these things like no one else I've ever even heard of; and I was among the first to recommend Obama to the Democratic machine... and have never recanted. For that matter; I distinctly remember you voicing considerable doubts yourself.


Exactly my point. There are a lot of people - probably most people, if we could have honesty - who have had to reevaluate, to some degree, the extent of Obama's viability after Iowa. Yes, I'm included in that. Not you though, huh O'Bill?
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 12:15 am
Nope. Nadda. Never. Go ahead and search Obama by O'bill in reverse order and witness my unwavering support. Cool

Hell, I even wrote him a song.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 12:26 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Nope. Nadda. Never. Go ahead and search Obama by O'bill in reverse order and witness my unwavering support. Cool

Hell, I even wrote him a song.


I have gone from loving the man and being sure that he would not and could not run successfully, to loving him and beginning to wonder if maybe he could make a serious dent, to loving him and becoming more excited about the real prospects of his being the first black president.

I believe most people have undergone different degrees of change in their perception of Obama and his candidacy. Even Sozobe and Butrflynet (whose support no one could deny) I bet could show where their view of the man has evolved.

But you O'Bill have been constant and stalwart. Gawd.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 12:56 am
Yep. I thought he stood an honest chance and still do. Friggin amazing, aren't I. Nostradamus? I F*cked him. Now quit your crying and prove me wrong, or STFU already.
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Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 03:05 am
Who the hell cares, is there a McCarthy committee conducting loyalty tests or using rulers to measure the length of our support? Did I miss the subpoena? Will our mug shots appear on the post office walls if our experience as an Obama supporter is different from someone elses?
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 04:30 am
Butrflynet wrote:
Who the hell cares, is there a McCarthy committee conducting loyalty tests or using rulers to measure the length of our support? Did I miss the subpoena? Will our mug shots appear on the post office walls if our experience as an Obama supporter is different from someone elses?
Shocked I sure hope that's directed at Snood. (If not; read our exchange, and see why it should be. I have no idea what the hell snapped in his head.)
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Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 05:34 am
Girls! Girls! You're both pretty!

I'm sure Mr. Obama would love to take you both to the formal if he could.

T
K
O
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 05:41 am
Laughing

That was funny. The important thing here is that Obama's for real. I'm satisfied to leave the rest of this alone.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 03:23 pm
My impression is that he looks a bit insincere. Not a lot. Just a bit.

I think he's a no-hoper. I'll bet the GOP is hoping he wins the nom. I should think Al Gore scares them to death.

Americans are fair minded and most of them, leaving out the partisan and the activists, probably think he was robbed last time and that they owe him one. And a Nobel winner with big money who looks like Clarke Kent and who appeared in Bali like a statesman should and who's cupboards have already been searched for skeletons.

He would look right reviewing our troops with Her Majesty on a state visit too.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jan, 2008 03:23 pm
Still don't know what your problem with Nimh's prediciton was; but you'll be happy to know that:
Those who put their money where their mouth is have decided Obama is now the favorite (first time, today).
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/998/gobamahu4.jpg I can hardly wait for the debates tonight.
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